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Originally Posted by Occultist
The only thing I see spouting here is you. We have answer your question several times also nowhere in Passover does a 6ft rabbit with dyed eggs appear. So my question to you is where did Christians get the Dyed eggs and bunny's and chicks? From Jesus? what is he scared of eggs and tell people on Easter to dye them and hide them? I told you the origins of this. You lack knowledge and your single minded books wrote by people who have no idea what there talking about only makes you more ignorant.
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You do realize that you saying Animus' usage of history of people " who dont know what they are talking about", is just as ignorant as you saying your beliefs is strickly taken from oral tradition right?
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Originally Posted by norseman
@Time "Any information "based" on "ancient celtic" lore (celtic being the traditional UK peoples) is to be taken with a grain of salt"
Now there's a question ! Celts were not the traditional UK people, they filtered into the country from around 500 BC to almost Roman times. THink about who was here before that. Who built all the Neolithic/Mesolithic structures ? Most of the Standing Stones and henges date from about 3000 BC. The Carnac Stones in Brittany date from around 3000BC also. Archeology proposes that Carnac was a Hunter-Gatherer construction, purpose still disputed.
This is a period of history about which little is known but the distribution of the Standing Stones [around the perimeter of the North Sea] do suggest a common origin. Probably, the dry plain of what is now the North Sea.
I'm afraid that Lore is just that, Lore. The oral histories of peoples. Certainly glamorised over the ages and you have to seek the "pearls of wisdom" in it, but the truth is in there. That is the fascination of Oral Histories  Always, you must keep in mind who wrote the formal histories ! |
THat is true Norse, but there is even LESS info about them, then "Celts". Celts were in the UK during the bronze age, during the "Stonehenge 1 and 2" periods. The odds are the celts either wiped out the natives, or amalgamated with them (this cul dexplain the regional differences between celtic tribes).
And yes, you should read the info with an open mind, as well as keepinmg it objective. That should also be said for oral tradition. Im native canadian. My tradition was passed down oraly, like celts. Like celts, they were wiped out, and today more then 80% of tradition is gone, and modern traditios are based by the small amount of missionary writings, and a small amount of word. That is within a few hundred years, NOT the few thousand like celts. Their history has more then likely been re written.
For the last statement: that is what i was saying, and i can say Animus as well. And the same goes with oral AND written histories (the written is usually taken from oral traditions, and written accounts from various peoples who interacted with them).
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Originally Posted by Occultist
I am speaking on behalf of my family and the Celtic gypsy traditions of my people. Me and Norse was not speaking of generalized paganism there is no such thing what we was pointing out the origins of Christian Holidays is strongly imbedded into Pagan traditions in doing so blotting out the original reason we perform the rituals we do. Such as Dying eggs goes back even before Christ or renewal of sheep and chicks. Or even the Easter bunny himself has nothing to do with Christianity. Just like putting a tree in your living room for Christmas was a pagan ritual forbidden in Jeremiah in the bible. In all honesty I think the only one confused here is Animus27.
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THe thing is, when you mention paganism, you ARE using a general statement. You have to boil it down more, say "celtic", then go deeper into regional worship. That was Animus' point: You cant say "pagan" as a specific tradition, it is anything but. Even its original meaning is a general term "country bumpkin :P "
Egg worship is universal. Asian, european, and even north american. Its a symbol of universal renewal. Jewish peoples used eggs during passover.
THe easter bunny is germanic, yes, but the symbolism of the rabbit, is essentialy the same as the christian tradition. SPring renewal. Dutch peoples (gernams), brought easter over to NA, so it isnt a far streatch to say that they mingled the spring hare with traditional christian worship.
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This directly goes along with the topic at hand "Can you do Pagan Rituals and not be Pagan" Because Christians unaware does pagan rituals every holiday sometimes if you get technical everyday. So saying that tells Christians it is okay to decorate a tree even though its considered a sin I personally see no harm in doing so. Or Dying an egg or a Egg hunt or playing on a Maypole or celebrating April fools day or even New years/Hogmanay. Giving this information I believe called someone to start playing king of the mountain and giving no valid answers to the origins just that me and Norse is wrong. I am wrong about many things I am not perfect but between me and Norse we have about 50 years of studying under our belts 30 for him 20 for me. If I do not know something I do not get into a topic or if I do its to ask questions. I in all honesty just wanted to give the proper information and not cause someone to try to issue a peeing contest.
This forum was created for knowledge learning from each other and personal growth.
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To say pagan traditions had no infuence on christian values is ignorant, and I know for a fact no one here said that. But its just as ignorant to assume that pagan traditions are the exact same as christian. You cant paint them with the same brush. Influence, and stolen are totally different terms. ITs only natural that christianity integrated some pagan traditions - that is how rome admitingly (through their own words, and scholars), got non christian peoples to practice it.
Its not like christianity came out of nothing. It was born from jewish worship, which has pagan ties, due to the babylonians, sumarians, egyptians and other middle eastern/ mediterranian peoples. But does that mean it was stolen, or that they are the same traditions now? NO.
There is also an absence of mentioning the 18th and 19th century modernization of christianity, and its traditions. Basically, commercialization of monotheism. It turned into a money making scheme.