[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

If an EMP takes out the power grid or we end up in some kind of end of days/ day after tomorrow scenario then the way it has always been - will be.

Knight, hello there! Well, generally I disagree it has to be any certain way, nor that we have to and must revert to what we are not by nature, to something lower than the innocent animals. When we kill, it is by choice. We always have the capacity to chose, and it the event of catastrophe, those who band together and share and cooperate and farm, etc, will be far stronger, with or without Old-West frontier guns at hand and so forth.

The only thing that stands in between collective cooperation and protection for the common good is ego and uncontrolled lust for power and dominance...a serious iniquity that is greatly hampering humanity's progress and always has. Now that we no longer need to constantly operate on the verge of starvation, better decisions can be taken.

And I say we need to view with the greatest suspicion those who are constantly fear-mongering and war-mongering to deprive us of our civil liberties and our social progress to date. It benefits only the elite and the posh of the First World nations, those who would like nothing better than to return to the class system of pre-WWII Europe or America.

We know what we are told of history - things can be talked up or down on a whim depending on who is pushing what agenda.

I think we all know that there were harsh, oppressive kings who saw their savagery as divine right. And similarly many more recent totalitarian leaders.

I think we also know that many died in the West (and elsewhere) in class struggles for liberty, for dignity, and for rights of full citizenship.

Of course, in standing for democracy and equality of all humanity and certainly of all citizens in my own country, male or female, that will be seen as having an "agenda", LOL, whilst their own reactionary, roll-back-the-clock platform is "not". Hahahaha....right That's not you now, mate, I'm certain.

But point is, IMO I think we all need to throw around words like "agenda" very carefully, and if we do use that word, we need to spell out exactly who we've labelled as having said "agenda".

If we are lucky - we live in a watershed era whereby we stand on the shoulders of giants but have a potentially small grasp of the whens & whys.

Again, I disagree. Yes, we had honourable men and women all round who dealt with tragic injustices and a hugely oppressive, stratified society in most places throughout history. Key figures led mobilised efforts for social change, particularly in the West, on the foundational moral grounds of the equality of all. ("All" meant just white men first and later was extended to women and folks of colour to recognise what amounted to a prior denial of the full truth...we are still on this trajectory of revelation and truth, and more evolution will come, unless we choose to roll it back due to our iniquities).

But it didn't end there. Social evolution (collective spiritual evolution) has continued and our knowledge of ourselves and of our complex societies have continued to grow. Now, we have an even broader perspective and an even deeper clarity of perspective to all of the right-aligned struggles and movements of the past. We can now bring far more to the where's and why's. And, again, we do have many great social scientists and thinkers and philosophers of all stripes over the past century or so in particular to thank for this research and insight, many if not most of them men.

[It is unfair to hold the men of today in the west accountable for the actions of those who came before but if we all believe in democracy & equality then we should all live by it.

Knight...over and over I've said I do not put the blame on all men.
Likewise, all those who struggled against kings and dictators didn't put the blame on all men. It is the imbalanced, power-over structure itself and those who manipulate and control it who perpetuate the paradigm and perpetrate the dogma onto the unwitting and the vulnerable.

Is it that you don't understand the distinction between the masses of humanity and the power-over elite who have oppressed and ruled over the rest of us variously for millenia? Or is it that you are just off on your own tangent? I really am not certain.

However, I will say that it falls to ALL of us to take ownership for where we find ourselves today, both individually and as a collective (society and humankind). That's how we ALL take decisions as a society that are thoughtful and that reflect our true intent.

For example, when slavery was abolished, how did that happen? First, some raised the issue, perhaps many. Then, we as a society struggled with taking ownership of the reality that this is an issue in our society and either way, we are taking a decision. Meaning this. We decide either to take ownership and do something intentional (say, to end it or whatever the decision is). Or we decide by doing nothing, and slavery continues because we have chosen (through silent complicity) to allow it to do. That's how life works. It doesn't matter who started slavery or that it was someone else's original doing...it mattered that we either all took ownership and did something about it in our day...or didn't.

Those who don't need to be phased out.

I assume by this that those who subvert republican democracy would be arrested, tried, and jailed. The problem is that most of those who are subverting democracy are at the top, and when they die the kids inherit the lot or are introduced into the halls of power.

That doesn't happen via "equal opportunity hires" however - the best person for the job should get it & there is no reason a woman can't get there on their own merit.

Ideally this would be true of men and of women. In reality, it's not even true of men, not by a long shot...so no way in hell is this true of women, LOL.

Since the playing field is hugely unequal, most men who get to the top or even begin to approach it in any measure usually have the deck hugely stacked in their favour over other men. And certainly over women. See my immediate prior about inherited wealth and nepotism. We still have nobility here, ye gads. It's all entrenched. Like the vatican but without the robes and the abstinence.

We live in a synthetic society & it is still important to understand that men/women are not created for that world specifically but a harsher environment whereby it is very easy to die painfully.

Again, I find your take to be odd. Every society that has ever existed has been of our own making...just not very many of us got a say in it, and it was crafted largely by the powerful and the elite.

That's how humanity works, though, we live in collective with one another. And it's we who decide what our collective society will be...no one else will do it for us and if we cede our power to the elite, we have our history to date to show us the outcomes. It's up to us to take responsibility going forward and to shape a truly collective future for humanity.

I won't comment to further refutation for the sake of the OP - I merely feel that someone should speak to the good things that women have today & going forward - with the co operation of men.

I have enjoyed speaking with you too and look forward to continuing in future. It's not so much justifying the past that interests me, and nor can I be much convinced of how wonderful it's been But there is something I'm truly grateful for.

I want to clarify that I have been speaking of the great good we all have in the West (not yet in other countries as much) to shape our future together, such that we honour the voices of all as we take decisions together to lead humanity into a new future, where authentic love is front and centre in all our relationships.

In all our relationships, and particularly at those most core and most intimate, our male-female friendships and our male-female partnerships. I am very excited to have the opportunity as a woman in the West in the 21st century to shape this future together with women and with men, all of us. And I hope that you are too. This likewise means I have serious concerns with the state of things at present, LOL. But nonetheless, very happy to be alive now in the West...so long as we understand that we the people are everything, and we have to rise to that great honour and that great obligation. I very much see it as a spiritual calling to be here now, for each and every one of us.

Peace & blessings and back to bed ;)
7L