[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Altair

But 7L, what is the ''pleasure'' that I do describe??
I am not advocating some lavish, over-indulgent lifestyle or anything. Never have advocated for such, although I think it's fine if others want to do so, provided it does not cause harm to other humans or animals. I'm rather modest myself in lifestyle, and also do not partake in such things as meat, alcohol, coffee. Pleasure is simply satisfaction/enjoyment, and nothing more. So it can be anything you want it to be, and I think that's a good starting point. And in that sense we are all pleasure seekers, just towards different things, either beneficial or harmful.

Back to ''idolatry''. I feel the same about that one. Idolatry can be anything you want it to be. Some religions just decide what is and what isn't, but to another religion the worship of a personal god, even without an image representation, can be viewed as idolatrous. I don't really see any important difference, and I view any physical 'idol' as just a useful focus point for worship or spiritual practice. It shouldn't matter if someone else worships ''idols''. What really matters are the fruits of any belief or spiritual practice.

Altair
Not to be too nitpicky...but...

I don't resonate with worship of a physical being...or non-physical being like a guide, a master, or a transcendental. It's neither helpful nor necessary and TBH I see it as a simplistic and often harmful way to put one's personal ownership onto others. Why not simply directly ask for and directly seek guidance, and then look to others as examples of true spiritual virtue (like the transcendentals) but not as gods or objects of worship?

Also, as you discuss, it feels like you still may have it backwards. It's not the seeking of pleasure (even from doing good stuff) that is the focus, IMO. It's doing and being authentic love. Lovingkindness and equanimity. That is the focus. One outcome - and NOT the main thing itself -- is a resultant sublime joy of being, which is another way of saying it is simply your ground of being at centre. It is just WHAT YOU ARE Many miss it entirely if they are looking for big feels or a rush or a high.

But if we align with centre with a focus on being and doing authentic love, then what we are is simply that...what the Vedic mystics refer to as ananda...and which we would call both ahava and yirah...the sublime joy which is the ground of being. And without which, the universe cannot exist.

Peace & blessings
7L