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Originally Posted by catsquotl
How deeply would you want to dive into what The Buddha thought, how it is often misunderstood and what he is actually saying?
First of all I'd be the last to convert anyone to accept anything.
That said he does say somethings for house holders. As a father of 6 living with my lovely wife 2 dogs and a cat. If I felt that I couldn't love them to become free from suffering I would never consider myself a buddhist.
I don't think he says you will disappear. Only that by piercing the veils of ignorance you will discover there is no you there. Do you see the subtle difference? Disappearing is not something that happens when you become enlightened. It is discovered that you were never there in the first place.
That does not mean you will die, although most theravadan believe that after attaining arahatship you should ordain or you will die within 7 days..
I somehow doubt that given the fact many people claim to be arahants and are married or in relationships.
In the text's you'll find that by seeing things as they are an opportunity arises for the so called 10 fetters to fall away.
That is what happens from some perspectives..No more and no less.
All the other teachings in a sense are there to make that realization easier, but not necessary. In my understanding and study so far I have never read that a house holder should live like a monk.
In fact I have read.That it is better to re-marry than burn with lust.(I'll have to search for the sutta though)
Giving all the fetters a healthy(less unwholesome) way to express instead of dying trying to fight them..
With Love
Eelco
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Hi Eelco, bad choice of words on my part. I didn't intend for the word disappear to mean actually disappear.
With that said, no you there means no anybody there. How can one love those that are special in their lives in a special way if there is no you and no them? How can you have any relationship that has any hint of being human with no you and no them?
Further more does a love for existence imply a lust for it?
How can a no you state love existence? That's my other beef with Buddhism. It seems to promote being at odds with existence and everything that is human about it. It reminds me of the Robins I once watched for weeks building a nest and laying their eggs, keeping their newborns warm in what was extreme weather only to have a blue jay snatch them out for dinner. It wasn't the act of the babies dying that struck me, it was how the robin parents just seemed to move on, unaffected by what happened.
That reaction is how I view a Buddhist who has reached this 4th stage you posted.
No thanks....
Keep in mind, I'm not looking for answers as I have found them already. I'm just trying to understand what a Buddhist follower hopes to find in teachings that clearly lead to what I am pointing at.
Buddhism is teaching that everything you know and love about life, including life itself is like being in the matrix, not real and something to overcome.
Who would want that and why?