[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well, I'm only trying to improve my skills in regards the navigation of my inner world, and also my skills in the social world.

Sounds good. Me too. We all are, each in our own way.

It is difficult at times and no one has it easy, and yes it's OK. The outer world is a too judgy, and we end up internalising that as self-judgment. That becomes a divisive self, as the judger and the judged.

I find that if judgment is wise discernment, it can be beautiful. If someone cared enough to actually give a damn about me personally and offer something because they can, I would certainly at least listen.

If it is judgment of someone for their critique of the oppressively exploitative aspects of social norms and society etc..(or similar)...or otherwise coming down on anyone in a vulnerable / minority position...then generally it's most uncool and unwanted IMO (and unskilled IMO).

On 'putting things out there' which are difficult... I don't encourage that. It's fine if people already feel OK and are ready to disclose themselves, but this isn't a safe place for raw wounds. I also suggest if people happen to make disclosures, it's up to them to say as much they as think is safe, and others shouldn't try to pry it open.

Of course, I agree. I did selectively choose to share a few things and discretion is of course paramount. My point was that contrary to what you might have expected, I found I could share personally here on SF about myself and very few would say anything unkind. I hope that has generally been the case for most here.

But if I question the social norms and if I really drill down on my critique of the most insidious and dehumanising aspects, I realise some may take it personally. Not because I personally criticized anyone or said they were bad or wrong...that's not my place and it's rude. But simply criticising many of the norms we've had shoved down our throat will challenge many because it's how we've had to live our lives. And if we back off of those toxic norms, we often are left simply with ourselves, our fam/friends, and our community of fellow travellers. That's no doubt what is underneath the anger or push back...the fear of not conforming adequately (no matter how ill and toxic the fit may be) and being judged and cast off for not being compliant and available...this particularly for women but a similar thing for men applied in other dehumanising ways.

Yes the universal aspiration will near enough inevitably bring us against our obstacles, and hence the difficulty, so we best understand the healing process is consequential to this thing, and be primarily concerned with our own process. I think the focus on others can be a way we use to distract ourselves, but we can easily convince ourselves it is helping.

I see your point and I agree ownership is paramount. However I also think that beyond a certain point, it is artificial and awareness of interbeing is also paramount. If we are not kind to others, do we think that it never hurts them? I think it's ok to reasonably assume that others would prefer kindness too and that unkindness also hurts them, just as all these things apply to each of us. It's also Ok to apprehend their pain directly if one is able to do that in a non-invasive way. Or to ask after them. That too is a clear guide and some of us can do that too.

OK, I'm interested in everyone's take on things, though it is fine to be reserved, and it's often for the best. Sometimes, when feeling highly compelled to speak out, it is hard to keep quiet. Mostly, when so compelled, some sort of 'prove myself' attitude is arising, maybe some need for validation, approval, appreciation, or just the burning desire to be right... so being honestly conscious of the motivation behind things is a good place for self-awareness, and it is very easy to fool ourselves about what our motivations are.

I agree folks should do whatever is best for them. I agree it's good to be honest about where we're coming from. I have recently been trying to explain more about that for myself on some of the threads, so that folks understand this is just my opinion. And what I am really speaking to is at the cultural level and is never directed toward individuals -- this is easy to assume when individuals are of course a part of this culture, but it's quite a different thing.

For myself, when I say I am interested on folks' take on things, I really mean it. I find it is uplifting and beautiful when I see and hear folks deeply engaging with themselves and with the world, and especially when they are becoming more aware and penetrating the veils of misdirection, illusion, and misalignment in their own lives. And coming into better aligned places. I feel it's important to voice our truths, and to witness and support one another as we voice our truths. To affirm that we each have truth to share, and everyone's voice is important.

This happens often when many things come together. When folks are coming to that place, when they feel ready or need to share, and also when others ask and show interest, kindness, and courtesy to them and what they have to say, i.e., if there is a safe place to share. If any one of these is missing, they may not be able to voice their truth.

Peace & blessings
7L