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Old 18-04-2018, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

To understand the prayer, I think it is important to understand first the context of "heaven". As Jesus further describes below in Luke, heaven is not some far off land...

Luke 17: 20-21
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Heaven is found within (or thru you), so Our Father is always "with us". A "name" is a knowing, and such a knowing is very hallowed.

How is heaven found 'thru you'? Heaven is within you is stated in the Lord's prayer, but what do you mean by 'Heaven is found thru you'?

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

This line is reminder that the kingdom of heaven is not some far away land, but here in the present moment. Or, as other traditions describe nirvana and samsara are ultimately the same. And if we are one with God's will, we realize that and the kingdom "comes"...

Are nirvana and samsara ultimately the same? Not the best source but this wiki quote states that "samsara ends if a person attains nirvana":

Saṃsāra (Sanskrit, Pali; also samsara) in Buddhism is the beginning-less cycle of repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again.[1] Samsara is considered to be dukkha, unsatisfactory and painful,[2] perpetuated by desire and avidya (ignorance), and the resulting karma.[3][4][5]

Rebirths occur in six realms of existence, namely three good realms (heavenly, demi-god, human) and three evil realms (animal, ghosts, hellish).[note 1] Samsara ends if a person attains nirvana,[note 2] the "blowing out" of the desires and the gaining of true insight into impermanence and non-self reality.[7][8][9]

Whether nirvana is equivalent to heaven or not is an interesting question.


For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭17‬ KJV)



Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us,

A few words of consideration on what we need for our "daily bread" or sustenance...

Matthew 4:1-4

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

And...

John 5:53-58

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Give us this day our daily bread is a request for the basics of life, actual food. You can be as spiritual as you like but if you don't eat you die. In this case 'daily bread' is not an analogy for spiritual nourishment but basic food needs being taken care of. Jesus was a down to earth kind of man afterall.

and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Here are a couple of verses which I think might help with putting the line in context...

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (‭James‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ KJV)

As the above says, God does not tempt anyone to wrongdoing. But, if one thinks of the translation of temptation more like "trials"...

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10‬:‭13‬ KJV)

It takes on a different feel and meaning.

I have heard it said that God allows the devil his chance at winning a soul to his side, otherwise the devil could rightly say a soul didn't choose God freely, where only one possible choice is available. God wants people to choose him, not as an innocent babe, but in full consciousness. Jesus himself was tempted three times, and was not swayed from his personal faith and conviction. All saints are tested I imagine. No one would seek temptation but it is inevitable on a truly spiritual path. Perhaps this line is an affirmation that given temptation, may I have the strength to not succumb, but with the help of 'the Father' be led always towards God only. As you quote above, God does suffer us to be tempted, but also shows us the way to Himself so we might choose that way.

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen
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