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Originally Posted by Lorelyen
There's a lot here to discuss! So if I may just take up one issue more to elaborate than disagree.
I honestly appreciate your view and it may apply among spiritually-inspired people in their relationships but the taboo so far as Ms Average goes comes with a loophole – girls dolling up. Why, if not to make themselves attract? And whom? I posit it’s to attract men and that’s in response to basic drives (in Freud’s “unconscious mind”) which is (as best we know) nature’s way of bringing the genders together.
Within the same taboo comes sex-for-pleasure for those “socially approved” – people found ways to avoid reproduction to enjoy just the sensations. In the more spiritually broadminded the energies border on magic – as in using them for something other than the pure sensations of the act - closer to the occult but still part of it. Has its usese - for example, mutually exploring one’s deepest mysteries requiring the catalyst of a “partner” (a word I hate, but it’ll do here) and which needs a deep sensual affinity.
Cultural expectations change over time. 100 years ago, marriage was the only way to legitimise sex. Then 60 years ago the young rebelled. As I understand they could afford what’s now thought of as promiscuity because STDs had just about been wiped out; AIDS wasn’t on the horizon and places like the Brook Centres helped with advice and various services. Although the permissiveness has gone the fallout has downgraded marriage so anyone who can declare another a “partner” can legitimise sex, more recently the partners don’t have to live together. (All of which hasn’t been good for offspring).
But there it is – many set out to attract sexually. Others like me don’t. I wear a bra for support and have had my hair lightened a bit but nothing otherwise to make me something physically I’m not! If I attract it’s WYSIWYG, as the old computer term went!
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Lorelyen hello!
I'm so sorry I missed this on my end. Very articulate and thoughtful. I can really resonate with so much of what you're saying. I agree that far too many have been either mindlessly pursuing in a predatory sense, or mindlessly in search of predatory pursuit, often without even the most basic awareness that this is largely a huge waste of time emotionally and spiritually, aside from fulfilling the sheer act of reproducing the species.
And guess whose back that falls on, if folks mindlessly participate in the "mainstream paradigm" that you and I have described? Women too need to grow up and begin taking ownership of all aspects of who they are, same as men do. LOL...like you, I look presentable but not overtly sexual or desperate. I don't give off that vibe precisely because I'm not out to relate to the world at large sexually. There's something very centred and pure about simply being who you are and relating to others at the level of their heart and their frontal lobe (I mean their engaged consciousness, but you get me). As women we are very girly without having to put the girls on display and highlight every crevass.
Most of the young women...and even many who are well over 30, LOL... dressed in mainstream garb look quite fairly desperate to keep some gent's attention, so the crotch and bum are on constant display, even when the cleavage is covered. It's a bit sad because loads of men will look anyway at all of us, regardless...so there's no need to relate to men from such a base, snake-brain sort of level. Just a couple years back, many women still understood it was equally demeaning to men, to relate to men's basest instincts and lowest possible way of viewing women (as parts) by flaunting their crotch and bum at every possible turn. Seeing loads of boobs on display without highlighting the crotch/bum is at this point almost an innocent sort of desperation, by comparison, hahaha....
To invest so heavily in playing this game 24/7 is both useless and frankly demeaning really for any woman, but especially for young women. Who are still often quite desperate to find any decent gent of character to partner with & have a fam.
As you say, it's equally on women to say, look, I'm not having these sorts of superficial relationships with men, where they are built primarily on a sexual connection start to end and I get nothing more meaningful out of it. If I want to be used regularly for primarily just sex, I could just pimp myself out for hookups and be honest about it...that's the reality women need to face. Because that's what a vast majority of these relationships are really built upon, two strangers more or less hooking up after a few preliminary dates or activities, perhaps a handful of them.
If women place so little value on themselves and on men getting to know them, then probably at least 90% of men will not give them even a shred more dignity or respect than women demand or require. Those men will be happy to use them for sex and figure the woman is so emotionally and spiritually immature and desperate, that she will settle for a few crumbs of male attention and his penis, as that's all many have on hand to readily give unless they are challenged to be better men. To do more and see more and give more.
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I don’t think we have to negate sentience or spirit to be able to indulge. But if people are patient enough to avoid the immediate lure - not easy in today's ;instant gratification world - then enter each other’s firmaments gradually, enduring love grows if it works at all. (It’s important to me now where sex is a lesser part of a relationship. Curious it may sound it doesn’t have to matter.
Perhaps it'll veer that way. Hence we need understanding rather than censorship which leads to exploitation. We need to be aware. (It's surprising how much of this subject crops up in marketing!)
Thank you for such a detailed response.
Same to you, 7L, peace 
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Hey it doesn't sound strange at all...not at all. The sex is important and good because of the love...and otherwise, who needs it? Speaking as women. And it matters when we speak from who and where we are, because men need to get that sex is just absolutely not wanted and not good for so, so many of us without the love. Full stop.
Peace back atcha Lorelyen and thanks again for your thoughts
7L