[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

I guess that's the difference between 'knowingness in practice' and 'knowing a bunch of stuff'

Yes that would fit the picture.

I know my mind's movements right here, right now, as it happens, without beginning to mindfulness practice, as mindfulness is aware of all beginnings, so I can determine to observe breath, or feel feet, or any other application of it, but I already witness myself making that determination, so this is about that sort common 'knowingness' we already have. And it's not about how to 'practice' mindfulness by beginning soon and ending sometime later. I can't teach anyone how to be aware, how to pay attention. I say 'attend to breath' and you already know how, therefore the ability of mindfulness is already known, and we can utilise breath or feeling or anything else that 'already is' in the practical application of it, all while already knowing that is what we're doing.

Yes I see now what you mean. The paying attention you mention is important. In this day and age of busy lives and external distractions, it can be a difficult task for many. Just of late when tending to others in support of their process, I usually remind them to be conscious of their breath, or take a few deep breaths to bring their awareness back into the body. Simple but profound it can be.

The problems such as the ones n Buddhist threads arise because, as Jesus Christ put it, 'they know not what they do'. Not because someone doesn't know 'something'. And I don't know very much, but I do know what going on with me right here right now, and what is mindfulness but that awareness of what is actually going on? I know in the sense that I'm 'aware of'. I know I'm knowing. I know you're knowing. I know knowingness is a universal facet of conscious awareness. Same for everyone.

Yes I understand, being aware of yourself as the one knowing and relating as the whole expression, can be tricky if your not aware of what is going on in you in this way. I guess for myself, I have always been someone to see myself even when I might not. There have been delays in the past when I wasn't fully open to see and feel, stay more present with myself. I cant avoid myself now, my awareness keeps me in check consistently. Its near impossible for me to do so, because what I don't see, my awareness will bring out to show me quite fast. I open fast to it and move it fast now, just by being present with whatever it is revealing itself to me.

Yes, the underlying nature of distraction comes from deeper places which we may not be fully aware... so the practical formal sitting allows more concentrated and deliberate deeper awareness throughout the mind/body lifeform, but to me, to tell people 'how to meditate' won't work, because first of all I'll have to be an expert on meditation, and second, the person will simply obey my authority and have no real purpose for the endeavour.

I guess if people were to spend more time alone in places where quiet and stillness are present, it would be easier to listen and tend to the self more consciously aware. Lately I have been walking the hills in the morning then taking myself to a nice nature spot and just listening to my bodies needs. Sometimes I might lay down on the grass and look up at the sky, sometimes I might sit next to a tree, close my eyes and just be present with myself and nature in this way. I am trying to make it daily practice. I see now in myself nature has become a necessity for me. Bush walks or nature walks in places where life is still and quiet, helps immensely, taking my shoes off and grounding on the earth. It is all I need really.

But this thread is a teaching of sorts, but not a conveyance of knowledge, so there won't be a lecture on the jhanas or anything like that, no great expose on emptiness... I'm discussing something more subtle which actually requires present attention. It requires my present attention to say it and others' present attention to understand it, and if we just follow along, not to learn from it, as there is no information here, not to agree with it because there is no information with which to agree, but just follow along, meditation will be there and you be like, 'it's this'. I figure because I'm here where consciuos awareness exists, as are we all, following along can only lead here, so this is entirely different and unusual - it doesn't take on the typical dialectic structure. That past linguistic convention is useless because this is entirely new. It won't fit any paradigm because it can not be constructed in 'something' we know, as knowingness itself, 'the awareness of this', This immediate knowing we have in awareness, is a mystery without answer - to which no one could possibly disagree or even agree, as we will see the mind agreeing or disagreeing, and be there before we do thsat agreeing or disagreeing we do, as the one aware of what we do.

Yes, but I'm talking abut meditation not as something you learn to do, but something you discover instantly, and all this about 'knowingness' is aimed to the instant realisation, 'I am here knowing' is completely obvious to anyone as if they already knew it.

Well, we get to this immediate awareness in knowing and what arises next? And in the arising of something, some small anguish over an uncomfortable sensation, and where goes that same presence of awareness? - We tend to get lost very quickly in the automation of our condition, don't we? Become quite unaware of this 'present knowingness' in our distraction, and then we 'know not what we do', as Jesus Christ would put it.

And when I mention this, can we see how true it is of ourselves? Do we see the contrast between that moment when we were like 'I'm presently aware' compared to the distraction of such an awareness? Yet immediatly upon recognising that loss of attention, you are again the one aware - knowing you are distracted, and therefore not distracted, but the knower of distraction. But then what? Judgement arises, 'OMG I am so unaware, easily distracted', and from such judgment self depreciation, disappointment and so forth, and thus revealed is the real internal psychological condition. Like, 'so this is what I do and have been doing all this time'.

In Buddhist terms, it's the first noble truth, there is suffering. Not all that nonsense about birth, illness, old age, death, which is only mindless repetition of a stupid religious text - but the actuality of the lived condition as it arises to ourselves, but from now on, having actuallt has insight ito your self making of these miseries, perhaps with a more carefully attention in our slightly deeper self awareness and some inkling of responsibility for yourself. If this rather small discovery piques the interest in the actual truth of your or my condition, not the imaginary condition we want, but in the truth of our actual lived condition as it actually is is, how relentless we will become in constant mindfulness.

Bravo.

Yes indeedy, because I follow this in exploration myself, I don't turn up here with something I knew before. It isn't read, looked up, pre-thought or other type of repetition. It's just the way I live it. It's expression here is motivated by my wish for the benefit of all beings (me included of course), and I try not to make it so much about me (though on the inside I am aware that I do).


Great aussie classic.

I get it. In this view your showing its a moment to moment awareness of what is moving as it is here and now. So it will be what it will be. I am so forgetful it would be pointless me coming prepared..lol