[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Then you are not talking Buddhism at all or any spiritual tradition.



What you are saying goes against my experience and others I know who have changed through various practices.


An example from Theravada:

In Theravada Buddhism the Buddha himself is first identified as an arahant, as are his enlightened followers, because they are free from all defilements, without greed, hatred, delusion, ignorance and craving. Lacking "assets" which will lead to future birth, the arahant knows and sees the real here and now. This virtue shows stainless purity, true worth, and the accomplishment of the end, nibbana.

In the Pali canon, Ānanda states that he knows monastics to achieve nibbana in one of four ways:[original research?][27][note 5]
one develops insight preceded by serenity (Pali: samatha-pubbaṇgamaṃ vipassanaṃ),
one develops serenity preceded by insight (vipassanā-pubbaṇgamaṃ samathaṃ),
one develops serenity and insight in a stepwise fashion (samatha-vipassanaṃ yuganaddhaṃ),
one's mind becomes seized by excitation about the dhamma and, as a consequence, develops serenity and abandons the fetters (dhamma-uddhacca-viggahitaṃ mānasaṃ hoti).

Abhidhamma Pitaka's list of ten fetters

The Abhidhamma Pitaka's Dhamma Sangani (Dhs. 1113-34) provides an alternate list of ten fetters, also found in the Khuddaka Nikaya's Culla Niddesa (Nd2 656, 1463) and in post-canonical commentaries. This enumeration is:[21]

1.sensual lust (Pali: kāma-rāga)
2.anger (paṭigha)
3.conceit (māna)
4.views (diṭṭhi)
5.doubt (vicikicchā)
6.attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa)
7.lust for existence (bhava-rāga)
8.jealousy (issā)
9.greed (macchariya)
10.ignorance (avijjā).

Fetters related to householder affairs

Uniquely, the Sutta Pitaka's "Householder Potaliya" Sutta (MN 54), identifies eight fetters (including three of the Five Precepts) whose abandonment "lead[s] to the cutting off of affairs" (vohāra-samucchedāya saṃvattanti):

1.destroying life (pāṇātipāto)
2.stealing (adinnādānaṃ)
3.false speech (musāvādo)
4.slandering (pisunā)
5.coveting and greed (giddhilobho)
6.aversion (nindāroso)
7.anger and malice (kodhūpāyāso)
8.conceit (atimāno)




Nothing much else to say, if you don't believe you don't.

Kind of abrupt ending there.