Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

it isn't a 'principle' for me to be averse to gurus... just a practicality.

Because if any of them had achieved anything 'real' they would have 'fixed' this place instead of going off to have fun while leaving the rest of us all to suffer all the time.

The fact that the place isn't fixed (obviously) means noone got anywhere I would find interesting... and thus while there may be valuable information to be attained from the works of the gurus I can't find it in my heart to take the overall directions such people are going in any more seriously than I take unbridled commercialism as a viable path for me to go down. The answer apparently lies elsewhere.

spin your response to that any way you want but the fact is certain things exist regardless of whether or not anyone is a guru. And none of this pontificating about how nice it is for some people to attain being a guru makes up for the fact that most of us simply don't have what it takes to get there, if for no other reason than that those who are already there have staked a claim to the place and they put up resistance to others joining their club. And OUR lives have to be endlessly painful. So what use is guruhood to us?