[iJenna]

Originally Posted by Carnate

You've misunderstood my comment... I'm also a little (uncharacteristically) frustrated by your post, so I'll apologise if the below reads poorly.

Stating that 'I have no evidence so I must be wrong' is unfair and unjustified. I'm not saying this as an effort to have you believe my words.. but more to make you aware of the flaws in taking this harsh stance on the matter.

Please re-read what I said. I did NOT state you were wrong. What I said was: I doubt you are right, in my opinion. And the reason is because you have no solid evidence to back up your claims. If you find that unfair and unjustified it's because you think and react with emotion, not logic.

Regardless of what someone explains the afterlife to be, there is no solid evidence.. there is minimal technical or scientific fact to be found on the subject. It's all, regardless of how you want to see the afterlife, faith/belief. When 'experts' explain these matters, the everyday person simply has to take things at face value, or choose to disbelieve in favour of another 'experts' explanation. When holy and religious scriptures explain the afterlife, it still relies on belief in those statements being 'fact'. There is no solid evidence that the everyday person can rely on. This applies to any view of the afterlife. Me not having 'solid evidence' does not diminish the value of my beliefs, or the accuracy of my claims.. in much the same way that a lack of evidence does not diminish anyone's views on the matter.

I know you don't want to hear this, but the bolded part... YES it DOES diminish the accuracy of your claims if you have no solid evidence to support them. Any logical thinking person will agree. Any scientist will agree. You don't believe the claims in the Holy Koran, do you. Yet a Muslim will insist just as you're doing to me, that it doesn't diminish the accuracy of the Koran's claims. Or a Christian who believes you're going to burn forever in hell because you didn't accept Jesus and you not believing doesn't diminish the accuracy of those Bilbe claims. See the lack of logic in this line of thinking yet? I hope so. Hey, if you want to personally believe in extraordinary claims with no evidence because they spoke to your heart, knock yourself out as long as you don't hurt others. BUT when you chose to state your personal opinions as fact to others, then it's a problem you're going to get called out on to provide the solid evidence that supports your claims as the fact you say they are.

What's more important is that the details align with each individual's other views and their current position in life. As people progress spiritually, their understanding of the subtle realms increases, allowing them more wisdom and knowledge of the field. As such, it's not really important whether someone believes a specific thing at any given time.. it's more important that they are comfortable with the beliefs they have.

No, what's most important is finding answer using logic, reason, and evidence; not emotion.

My views may not align with your situation at the moment, but stating a lack of 'solid evidence' as a reason for me to be wrong is insulting; because the same logic applies to anyone's views on the matter.

You're insulted because you do your thinking and reacting with emotion rather than logic. And again, I did NOT state you were wrong, I said "I doubt you're right due to the lack of evidence to support your claims." BIG difference.

I'll also remind you that I did say I could provide many different links that support my views. Me not wanting to do this should not be taken as my views being unfounded.


[edit]
I'll also make this offer again.. if you wanted more details about my views, that are heavily based on logic, reason, reality, and what 'evidence' is available, please let me know. My views on the afterlife shouldn't really be read in isolation.. they link logically to a great many surrounding topics.

^ Ok. I would love to see your evidence you're saying is based heavily on logic, reason, reality and what evidence is available (even though above you said there is no solid evidence for what the afterlife is). . So please, I would love to see it. Thank you!

Honestly, Carnate, you seem like a really good person who cares, that's awesome! I am not trying to cause you upset. I wish for you and everyone else to just open your minds using evidence and logic to find the answers, please.

I lost my boyfriend in January. The grieving has been very hard. He believed in a lot of this type of afterlife stuff while I need evidence to support extraordinary claims. He promised me he would come back to let me know. He has not. Why? Simplest answer with the most evidence to support it... because he's dead now and can't. Not likely he would leave me alone to suffer in grief because he's too busy now remembering all his past lives and playing in some spirit world.

There is some solid evidence to support the idea there is something more to all this after death. Most use their emotions to find answers about it causing some to invent the idea of a grand afterlife of spirit worlds full of love other's will easily believe with no evidence because it warms their hearts so it must be true. While others use the evidence we know and apply scientific process to theorize. My heart actually wants to believe you Carnate, really it does. My brain though says without the evidence, and all the questions it creates, logically, it's probably not right. If you find that insulting, just as a Muslim or Christian would find you insulting for not believing them without solid evidence to back up their claims, then I suggest you start finding spiritual answers using logic, not emotion. Or at the very least, start expressing your views in opinion format rather than fact and you won't get called out by logical thinking people asking for solid evidence to back up your claims.

I get it, the heart wants these things to be true. My heart wants them to be true. But is it reality? Is it logical? Without solid evidence in reality, it's probably not.


I have met 3 NDE'ers in my life. All of them used logic to understand their experience. One even had some pretty convincing evidence to back their experience. They all said there is no beginning or end. Only infinity and points of totality (which we are). No god. No source. No spirit inside us (this is an illusion created by the fact we have self aware consciousness and a learned language giving us the ability to talk with ourselves). No spirit world full of past lives and activates to do. Just when we die, our information (or the memory of us) goes into a collective, singular consciousness of infinite information. Simple. It answers why the dead never return. It answers why we have no evidence of an afterlife spirit world. So logically, it's more likely it's something like their claims rather than a complex spirit world which raises tons of questions that can't be answered, has no solid evidence to support it, and goes against Occam's razor, common sense and logic.

True spiritual answers (or any answers to anything) can only be found using logic, not emotion. Only then will we each truely progress individually and as a collective human species spiritually. But sadly, I don't see this happening anytime soon. Such a shame.