Okay - - time to stir the pot here ! ! People have run for cover way too long ! ! HeH

packwidget - - I agree with Mart / dreamer. What do you mean by - - "the answer lies within" ?? You know how often that statement is tossed out into the conversations ?? Like - - it's supposed to be some kind of "answer" or something. But - - is it ?? What does that statement mean ??

In other words - - exactly what facet of Self are you considering to be "within" ?? That ties into your statement that the seagull claimed to be true - - "You begin by knowing you have already arrived."

So - - "who" and "what" is "you" in that statement. It could be taken as the emotions - - if one wishes to focus on an emotional side to it all. The mind - - not necessarily the ego - - would quickly and delightfully wish to say to the owning individual - - "psst. I am the "you" in this statemtnt." The mind would love to convince each and every individual on this planet - - "Hey - - why look any farther ?? You have already arrived, and "you" is that "energy" that is observing these thoughts." Or - - something like that. Mind will twist it all around and convince the individual that "you have already arrived" - - so - - just continue on ! !

That philosophy is rampant ! !

There are a number of members on this and other forums that base their existence on this belief. I have already arrived" - - or - - "I already am which I seek" - - or - - some similar belief.

If this is something that they are just beginning to accept as true - - then they are in a marvelous position to take charge of it - - revise it a bit - - and make it work for them in a most beneficial way ! !

But the longer it is carried in the above context - - that "I am already that which I am" and I simply have to observe the thoughts (ego) and this then puts me beyond form / duality / etc. - - then - - these people are in for a wolrd of grief later on ! !

People simply have NO idea just how sneaky / cunning / tricky the mind is. The mind is fully capable of directing the individual to believe all of this. And a lot of it revolves around the concept that - - if the individual simply has to observe the thinker and then "step beyond" the thinker and this puts him / her beyond mind - - then this gives the false notion that this is actually so without having to go thru the effort to actually make it happen from the core of Self Itself.

That's why - - people who have actually done this - - can look back and see that the people who are trying to do it "this" way are just kidding themselves.

Which - - admittedly - - can be fun. For a while.