[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

That can happen with anything. Hardly a reason to condemn entire systems.

I think you overlook anything I say about the benefit of systems and only see what I say about the issues.


Give me examples of this. You say this often.

Show me.

I mention the AYP site because it is the only free traditional system with all of the lessons online that I know of.

If you know of another one like it and would prefer to use it as an example I am all for it.

Show me.

[quote]I don't demean you Gem. I am not trying to hurt you or be mean to you in any way.

I do have to say you try this often and this is another example of you saying you have no position at all while at the same time you created a topic based on a position. Everything you have said about people being obedient, experts, listening verses answering etc is a position.

I see your issues with authority

You perceive my issues with authority, but you don't see them. It's just a story you tell yourself.

but you have not presented any examples of these problems.

Show me.

I have met a lot of people who are negatively affected by meditation systems, and seen a few go straight from the ashram to the nuthouse, but you only think I completely denigrate meditation methods, but I don't. Even though I am aware of the adverse affects that they have, there are benefits.

What do you mean by observation and it goes deeper?

Observation is perception and there is a lot to say about certain aspects of what 'going deeper' refers to, but I don't believe that you are prepared to listen.

Some recent examples.

My general thrust isn't the bagging out of formal technique. Though the problems associated with systematic methodology are quite numerous, and a large number of instructive practices are somewhat misguided, there's problems with everything and everyone is misguided sometimes. The only difference is being indoctrinated and conditioned by rote and repetition and remaining flexible enough to change direction when you find you're being led down the garden path by the gnomes.

Quite a balanced statement

There are things I've become sensitive to in my communications with 'the experts'. There's a lot of noise that makes listening difficult, such as my attempts to explain the more underpinning concepts of the breath meditation was practically impossible to do because the forces of antiquity and discourses of knowledge are extraordinarily loud for me speaking as one little person, and where the consensus is that your breath is but a method of mental focus, there is no room to converse on the deeper aspects of it, because to do so is bound to contradict the antiquity from where prescriptive discourse perpetuates.

P.S. These are also positions that you are taking. Very strong, opinionated positions that could be considered insulting by many.

The bolded is what I experienced.

You're the person who has derided and demeaned me more than any other person. Almost every time you address me you assert some kind of slur, like the above 'issue', and I challenge you to find a single instance where I have done the same.