[Joyce]

[quote=bartholomew]

Originally Posted by Joyce

* * Uncertain how this will appear in a reply (as far as interjecting my reply between your quotes. Thank you for making the time to reply. Please don't get offended by what I write. You will certainly take this as you do. I'm going to try to be as nice as I feel at this time.

I understand what you mean. Think philosophically and it will become more clear. Some tenants of faith we retain all our lives. Many others are no longer necessary because we have learned. When I was in the first grade and in Sunday school I took on faith what I was told. I no longer need faith to believe there is a spiritual universe. I know from first hand experience that it is real. I know how to access it and do, quite frequently. Faith in this has become moot. So this is a case of sure knowledge replacing faith. But that is not enough. As we practice our new knowledge we gain experience. We learn what can be done and what cannot, and under what conditions. These qualifiers can be called wisdom. They are born of experience.

** Anyway, I don't wish to start an argument here or in private either. We are of very different mindsets. I certainly do not need to or want to think philosophy, which I'm sure your schooling has mainly been about. First off I feel your old faith was purely knowledge based. I'm sorry for you that you write that you no longer need faith to believe there is a spiritual universe. I absolutely hear your faith as being intellectual based with the "intellectual" belief the universe is unfathomable and you yourself know this first hand. Why say this?!? All of us here could say that.

You sound, to me (anyone else care to reply to this???) as if you believe you are talking down to me. I understand you do not know me and perhaps wish to sound all wise. Perhaps check your ego. As you can tell I am . . what? ****ed off? Either you have faith or not there is a power greater than you. I really have to wonder.

Throughout the above process which takes decades, some things are still taken on faith but their time will come.

* * Wow, you must be ancient!

I could, all the while, say that I have faith that everything will be OK. This is another sort of statement. Somewhat less pragmatic. It is very true too that we humans often fail to understand one another. Maybe this is the single greatest cause of trouble in the world. And language, any and all of them including mathematics, is inadequate. It always falls short. { Bart QUOTE]

If I were perfect I could have written my statement a little better I suppose. I have faith that someday I may actually do this. ha ha

Faith is either absolute or it is intellectually nothing. I mean well ~