[Ab Origine]

Hi Folks..

Theo; Yes my friend, all that IS true of course - to a certain extent it applies, but mostly it is indeed premature, irrelevant as yet.. Christ DID know He would need to die - and yes, HE probably knew He would be crucified specifically...BUT - NOBODY ELSE DID !!!

Christ ONLY reveals to the disciples His impending demise, at that event termed the "last supper" - there in your buible version, He tells them one will "hand him over" and indeed immediately after, this does happen... In Judas own gospel its a little different, in that Christ practically ASKS Judas to do it, says it MUST be done and tells Judas he is ready to see this through..Judas had a VISION here about this event and asks Christ to explain it - and at the same time the other eleven disciples ALL share a vision about a future and exceedingly corrupt RELIGION - Christ explains first Judas vision, tells him that He Christ must die and that Judas is the one to make it happen...Likewise He explains the shared vision to the other disciples, and He is exceedingly angry, disappointed in them all - tells them this future corrupt church is THEIR LEGACY as they fail to understand - and of course this future corrupt religion is that famous ROMAN catholic church that was manufactured for political agenda and your bible manufactured to ensure a stable foundation for this deception...

ALL THAT THE CHURCH IS INFAMOUS FOR, all its scandal, corruption, can be found FULLY DOCUMENETD in the gospel of Judas, a premonition and shared disciple vision that came true 100% - EVERYTHING from its religious wars, murders, paedophilia, profiteering, powermongering - ALL that the religion is infamous for, all its future corruption given in accurate detail here. religious corruption EXPOSED before it even happens - WARNING given clear and precise in the gospel of Judas that we can read now, look at the history of this religion, and see 100% correlation - exactly as if they looked into a magic ball and saw the future 100% accurate !!! Christ is DISGUSTED by the religion that will bare His name, tells them that at the last day, when He returns, this institute will "be put to great shame"....HIS words Folks - not mine - read it for your self in Judas original testimony...

So Theo - I ask you to THINK about it -the REAL WORLD SITUATION -there is Christ addressing a huge crowd...You are correct - the crowd KNOWS and understand crucifiction - BUT - at this point Yeshua is NOT an "enemy of the state" is He..?...This crowd have NO REASON to presume that He will be crucified at all - do they..??... no, the crss syol is yet irrelevant here....

So - imagine - He addresses the crowd, says "pick up the cross follow me" - the crowd would be confused - one or two would link the crucifiction cross and would for sure shout out "ARE YOU GOING TO BE CRUCIFIED THEN??" or some such - as this crowd would need this statement explaining, obviously so....The way you present it here, its like Yeshua just PREDICTED HIS OWN CRUCIFICTION and told the crowd that was what would happen...Of course, this would bring up all manner of questions, arguments and disbelief and what not (just look here on the forum when any such claim is made) - but NOTHING is mentioned at all - no repurcussions - like He just predicts His own death by crucifiction, tells them all they must follow Him INTO death, yet NOBODY even raises an eyebrow to question this..?...

Theo - keep it REAL mate - we know it NEVER happened that way - make such a statement with such far reaching repurcussions and it will ALWAYS be questioned severely - that is human nature my friend, and that is how that crowd would react here in the real world !!

The cross statement - the symbology of it - is wholly premature and wholly irrelevant before His murder...IF He had predicted His death in that public manner as you suggest then for sure it would have caused an uproar - dont forget His enemies are constantly trying to ensnare Him and debunk Him and publically confront Him (as we see, He and I truly are in the same club for indeed we deliver the same truth) - do you think then IF He had indeed predicted in public that He would be crucified, do you honestly think His enemies would still go ahead and do that..??...Of course not - if He predicts His death that way, and then they kill Him that way after all, this would show the people He was legitimate, and that is the last thing His enemies want, isn't it..?..

Keep it real my friend - never forget the context as all this is unfolding here in the real world... If He had predicted His own crucifiction in public as you suggest, then for sure He would NEVER have been crucified at all - to do so just gives Him even more credability, makes Him seem even more genuine and bona fide and verifies the very truth His enemies are trying to supress and silence - doesn't it..??..

EDIT; We still need to address the other issue - how can He tell this crowd to follow GOSPEL teaching, when no such gospels exist for them to follow yet..?...again, such a statement given to that crowd would only lead to confusion, and would of coure be addressed by Christ in explanation, as all else is.. Like He would HAVE to tell them, yer follow this book , but my padwans haven't even written it yet, but wait and it will be available to your great great great grandchildren some 400 years after...lol....Keep it REAL Folks...

The ONLY way that passage can contain a reference to FUTURE events that the crowd can grasp and understand, is indeed if this passage is written AFTER those events have already happened..!! The AUTHOR of the passage knows of the cross symbology and knows of the gospels, obviously, as the author is actually WRITING the gospel that will be attributed to Mark - but rest assured, that author writing in the bible is NOT MARK himself, and indeed NONE of those gospels are the disciples writing !!! As further proof I will just show you now the END of this gospel , where we see clear admission that is it NOT MARK WRITING...

So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.]]

Look - Ive said it before - please stop ignoring it - it is crucial evidence - it says clearly and precisely - that the Lord spoke to THEM - the Lord did NOT speak to the AUTHOR, the author was not present with THEM others...if the author was present, then he would say the Lord spoke to US !!!

The author continues and says that THEY then went off to preach as instructed...The AUTHOR did NOT go off to preach with them, as the author is NOT a member of this group of disciples at all.. THEY went off... If he was a disciple with them - if it was actually MARK writing as it claims - then it would HAVE to say WE went off as instructed... The author at no place tries to make out that he is a disciple - he states very clearly, repeatedly that he is NOT a disciple and all that he relays has happened to SOMEONE ELSE and the author himself was NOT PRESENT at these events !!!!

ALL THE CANON GOSPELS ARE THE SAME FOLKS !!!! NONE of them are written by the disciples directly, and each end verse (and beginning sometimes) shows this as undeniable logical fact...The new testament gospels are fraud and deception and as such cannot be trusted to give you this Divine truth you seek...