[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

The lust for power.

Ok that would make sense. The ego latches onto the source it seeks through, which is really only a building tool to understand yourself as deep as you go into yourself.

If we consider the word 'authority', it has two meanings. 1) Someone in a position of power and; 2) An expert with great knowledge.

Yes.

Those who lust 'authority' need a knowledge base from which to exert power, so their motive to pore over text which is socially sanctioned as knowledge usually entails the desire to hold the powerful expert position

The ego will often draw one into the stranglehold of such things until one learns the deeper lessons of humility within their own lived experience. I suspect also, its confidence boosting to practice leading in this way. To become the teacher (your own) or master yourself, there are many ways we practice as our own lead. As I have learned for myself and have seen in many seekers, they are taking back their own power through many systems that have conditioned them and taken away from them, their own self empowerment. So I do see it, it can be a positive upliftment to your own empowerment, but naturally it would be wise not to stay locked into this 'way'. I do recall through my own process, always having the rug pulled out from under me when I believed I 'knew' the truth or positioned myself in such a way, where I wasn't grounded in humility. It seems to me, developing a humble heart supports one/me to always listen to my inner teacher self to know that my words and sharing are coming through a more empowered self, not necessarily one seeking to be in power.

Knowledge is power and that's just the way it is, so those of us who deal with knowledge are in an ethical position because power comes with responsibilities.

Yes of course, knowledge definitely is power, but those same responsibilities and ethics would apply to the lived experience if one is open to themselves to learn and grow this way. In the end I am aware its more important that I lead myself as this importance I see and notice more integrated as my own true self.

In this way, I become the story and energy, the awareness and the practice without needing to dictate what is important or "should" be. What is known to be ethical or what one needs to be more aware and responsible for in this world, is then integrated and I lead as the wisdom and clarity I build for myself.

I was watching David Carradine in Kung Fu yesterday. It was a favourite show as a child. Even though he was only playing a role, it was inspiring and very true to how the lived experience could become. Little did I realize it was my own deeper understanding, for myself, coming. His presence and movements were always centred in his true nature, which meant all actions were aware of others more inclusive of his own true nature, but it was through the wisdom that he lead himself, rather than what he perceived as lacking, or important. In this way, there are no arguments, no conflicts within himself, no need to state the obvious, but rather become all that as himself. :)

The typical trend of quoting scripture to fortify one's own view point is the pleasure of power. Those who do that also show other signs of getting a leg over you though their 'you language' which is almost always a deficit based narrative. Saying derisive personal things invalidates the person, so that we may disregard all that say. Of course, I would have to assume a position of authority to assert anything - I become the expert on you, hence I know you are are a this or that, and you become the known as I become the knower.

Yes I get it, but at some point one would have to drop this as the one looking into all this and source something within their own process to end this story, yes? There is two sides in this view your offering, yet all sides are within to cease and integrate deeper as one's true nature. I know your showing an important view, but this view as I see it, supports you first and foremost as your own integration. In all deficits I see, in all invalidations I see, in all positions of authority I see, in all experts I see, in all knowing, known or unknown I see, I am there seeing myself.

Knowledge and power is different completely to the truth and influence - the latter truth is what fosters honesty and trust which are the appropriate conditions for the flourishing Sangha. This is where my discussion isn;t like an expert's discussion, because I speak to the real-lived virtue, truthfulness, honesty, trust rather that the rigours of all the stuff I know about Buddhist philosophy.I like all sides, the real-lived and the philosophy of Buddhism, but the greatness of human beings is virtue - not what they know.

The greatness of human beings is Virtue-Gem

What people know is important to themselves and their own process. Eventually as time and progress moves them into life and experiences, all sides do fall away, but that takes time, age and experience to bring into being. One aspect of learning I integrated into my own wisdom, is that everyone is doing their best where they are and with what they have. We cannot see what we cannot see, feel what we haven't feel, explored what we haven't explored, be aware of what there is to be aware of in us. It takes time and process for all things to come to be and unfold for each one of us.

Kindheartedness, truthfulness, genuine interest in their voices... and the greater outcomes of mutual trust and compassion which enables greater depths of relation, virtue, integrity and the actual way we live.

This is "felt" through the person and I understand. When one is only showing knowledge and concepts and forgetting that they themselves exist within all that, sometimes it is through those that understand "people matter too" that they too can learn another way of being, or simply take a little bit of that wisdom and bring to life something new for themselves.

I like the philosophy, and as a knowledge, it's just 'the teachings say this', 'the teaching say that', but I'm not one to say it is true, I am the one to say is only a meaning, not a true meaning, a meaning which has a wide array of facets which may actually be relevant to individual lives in differing ways.

WE create our own meaning through many streams of our lived experience. Each of us are very unique, living very unique lives, so its important to understand my way and my life is not another's. There is a thread of course, that binds us all as an interconnected world, yet within all this, there is much more that we can become aware of for ourselves and others as one.

I'm really talking about that 'real-life' aspect, which isn't obedient to any authority or trivialised by conformity to an imagined Buddhist ideal, but actualised by deep honesty in self inquiry. Not controlled by discipline and will, but managed through self-awareness - and all these things are so multidimensional, delicate and sensitive - so it inspires a tremendous amount of care.

Yes I am on the same page as you. There is so much moving through the whole stream of our awareness when open and aware of such things. For those yet to know, become self aware of those many streams, it is really only myself that can lead and model the wisdom it creates in me. Developing the realizations is important as is actualizing them into the life experience, imo, there is no other way to bring a greater clarity and wisdom alive in yourself. And of course as you know and I know, those truths deepen when we interact with other life as other life is. My truth is ever expanding into a greater awareness as I actualize myself into the world. As David was showing me yesterday, in many ways he had no choice but to battle and protect himself and others, the way life was, but as a presence grounded and aware, he conserved more energy by not entertaining the 'drama' and the 'truth' as he knew it 'could be'. His eyes in this way became the energy and movements to support life and lead as everything he knew and saw in the world.

All sides are within and when all sides fall away, there is only life experiencing itself as a presence aware.

The truth of the heart... the real truth - the only truth that matters, and has real meaning.

The heart of the matter-The matters of the heart.

Yes it all matters in my heart.