[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Joe Mc: Listening recently to some 'neo advaitin' teachers, who say that meditation is not needed and in fact it is a hindrance to awakening. It feels to me like a partial truth which they never fully explain.
Jim: I don't know if it is a hindrance but, IMO, it is not necessary since you already are that or the reality but you may not know it for now. I think they mean that so long as a seeker BELIEVES that they are not the real deal and still believe that they are a separate person or self, which is a wrong identity, they may use meditation and lots of other techniques to get to or become what the seeker already is.

Joe Mc:Then he always goes on to say that meditation is not going to help etc.
Jim: I'd now say that, if you want to meditate, do it. If not, don't bother - you are still you either way.

Joe Mc: For example we hear a child's cry for help, we spontaneous go to their aid through instinctual caring or compassion, does it matter that the act of love in this case is empty of inherent existence ? That nobody is crying and nobody is saving the child ? That may be the case philosophically that nobody is really there and that is were I'm feeling some of these guys are, they are trapped inside a philosophy more than an awakened reality ? Thanks for listening.

Jim: I don't know where these ideas about nobody and nothing come from but I am the Source and as the source, I, the source (in the form of a baby), am crying and then I, the source (in the form of jim), am hearing it and I, the source, am responding in whatever way I, the source, sees fit. If the source becomes a house fire, the source (as a victim) calls for help, then the source (as a fireman) responds and saves itself (the victim) from itself (the fire)! The Source wanted a new president so the source (as Trump) ran for the office. The source (as the people) voted Trump in and then the source (as some other people) became enraged and made a fuss. The source (as Trump and his people) laughed it all off while the Source (as the unhappy folks) continues to fight WITH ITSELF (as the Trump folks!) Get it? There is only Source or Self in all that there is and all that ever happens or doesn't happen. If a cop pulls me over and gives me a ticket which makes me angry, its the source giving itself a ticket and then getting upset with itself for getting a ticket from itself!
It is, was and always will be the Self or source doing and being everything that happens or doesn't happen in the play of life. There is no "separate person/me" doing anything because it's the source or Self that is apparently happening everywhere. IMO, much of the terminology of current teachings is incomplete, inaccurate or misleading due to semantic issues.
Ramana's entire teaching was about: who am I? and he often pointed to the fact that there is only the Source or Self and nothing else so, while many of us may take our selves to be limited persons/egos/'me's, etc. out doing stuff, the overlooked fact is that we are the Self, Source or whatever name/label fits it.
"I am That" is a summation of this fact that is easily overlooked once we are programmed to BELIEVE that we are simply temporary animals that are born and will die. Not much in our human lives ever invites us to seriously LOOK to see who and what we really are and some non-dual teachings can make us get lost in concepts and practices that fail to help us stop and see/know who we really are - we are not a separate 'me' or self-identity struggling against other separate entities.
If you want to get passed all the practices and methods such as meditation and chanting, I'd recommend looking for John Wheeler, Jim Newman or Tony Parsons on line. There are a lot of spokespersons out there who can show you how to know and accept who you are RIGHT NOW - just as you are - WITHOUT practices and techniques. This is it and you are it - RIGHT NOW! Nothing is wrong and nothing is missing!

Jim, thanks. I get what your saying but it seems to me, the danger with its 'All Source' is that it seems to deny relative values. So an empty stomach is the same as a full stomach, it's all Source and also where is the impetus, motivation, volition, I'm sure there are 100s of other terms, where is the impetus to move from bad to good, from hate to love, from negative to positive.

What would be the point if it's all Source, one position ie starvation would have equal validation with another ie. full stomach, hunger satiated. Surely hatred is part of an 'unawakened state' and to say it is Source or God seeking something is a bit of a cop out to me ? Replying to you however, has brought up a question in my mind this very moment.

Perhaps the Seeker, me is not responsible for other people's suffering, or is unconcerned with it ? Perhaps acknowledging suffering in the world is part of a guilt trip created by such things as Christianity etc. or modern politics ?

I get that Liberation is not adequately describable with words. There is pointing with words and concepts and emotions and that is all. But why is there so much pointing going on ? Surely with so many people pointing someone is going to be poked in the eye ? lol. Very interesting Jim, thanks for your reply. I saw Tony Parsons a couple of times in London. His style as you know yourself is very non compromising and he expresses the fact that you cannot speak about it, such a paradox. There are other good teacher's too out there as you know. Joe.