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Originally Posted by God-Like
Thought it might be interesting to discuss this in reflection of a conversation had on Tara's thread about the spiritual teacher Robert Adams.
This isn't a Robert Adams or any other guru bashing thread or a defending of anyone's thread, it is simply addressing what is realized per se and what is concluded via the mind and how it is so.
So firstly one would have to address 'realizations' that are either of the mind or 'realizations' that are beyond the mind.
Realizations beyond the mind cannot even be called 'realizations' to a certain extent because there is no self present. There are no mindful reflections, or comparisons had of what you are, so there cannot be the thought that I have nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality.
So we have to get this straight as a foundation to begin with. Agreed?
What I hear often and I am sure others do also, is peeps / teachers / guru's say that they are this or they are not this etc etc,
So where does this information come from?
It's easy to have an experience of the mind and burn your hand on the stove for examples sake.
You realize that the stove is hot and your hand burns.
These are all experiential realizations had, that are all mindful.
So then there is the so called realizations beyond the mindful experience had.
Then one again becomes aware of the stove post-realization and proclaims that the mind-body-reality is an illusion and perhaps there is only an illusory self present.
How do peeps think that they have realized all this when the realization itself pertains to no thought about oneself or this world .
self and the world do not exist at this point because there is no you .
What realization is it that one has that gives one the truthful impression or the knowing that they have nothing to do with this world or the body or that they can somehow float around as an unidentified self.
x daz x
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Perhaps unidentified simply means, I exist but I’m not attached to my existence or the world as it is around me. ‘I am aware Of what I am beyond all this, beyond thoughts and mind”. The self that is beyond thoughts and mind is awareness, so it’s through ones direct experience you become aware of yourself aware. Awareness doesn’t rely on physical senses.
It’s recognition without knowing. It’s knowing recognising awareness aware. It’s directly experienced from within. It’s clarity, it’s clear. It doesn’t grapple with thoughts about it..;)
As for your thoughts about those being the self that doesn’t exist, how they live often is in ways more aligned to how they are choosing to be in the world as that.