[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Altair

Concerning the gods and worship.. Many humans have an innate inclination to bow, kneel, and worship the gods. I think a lot of people don't want to treat higher beings as ''equals'' or buddies. Humans have worshipped them for thousands of years, in different ways, and have experienced all sorts of spiritual things..

Altair, hello there.
I'm actually not here in this discussion to talk about worship. It's not the focus of my response and I have little to no interest in discussing it. I get that people have worshipped and still do worship everything from hunks of rock to other beings. However I am rather indifferent to the fact of worship.

No being of any merit is asking to be worshipped, let's put it that way. If they are, that is highly problematic, LOL. To look respectfully and reverently on others, no matter who they are, is always appropriate...but that reverence and regard is something we need to share openly and give to one another. That which is, or One, is so unknown as to be far beyond our worship. Relating with right-alignment, with the same love, respect, and reverence toward Source and all creation, all that is, is the only authentic thing to do. Be who you are at centre. Be here now.

Buddhist and Jain scriptures it is said that those with a lot of good karma may be reborn as angels, and live like that for millions if not billions of years. Buddha is said to have a past life as one such being, in a heavenly realm. However, these beings may live with too much luxury, too much comfort, and while they may be closer to divinity and have more knowledge, they're also living too well off to really chase enlightenment. In contrast, those who live in hellish realm or in much suffering are not equipped for it either. It is said human beings have the right degree of suffering and enough understanding of happiness to give the enlightenment a shot..

You are definitely speaking of other realms and other beings aside from the transcendentals I spoke of. They did not arise from humanity or any persons' good karma. What you say above does not apply to the transcendentals who have always been as they are, i.e., beings of light (as we perceive them with our third eye).

As to humanity, however, what you say makes sense -- that we would be corrupted and unmotivated to the good if we were to live as they do and in some "eternal" human form.

I think, comparing all religions and spiritual paths, this is by far the most convincing one. It also puts a nice twist on things, especially on our cultural obsession with linearity, and feels more complete than what many Western authors say. I've read books where people claim humanity is ''evolving spiritually'' etc. but I have to disagree. Spiritually we are merely going back. What may occur is an increased closer connection to the subtle body and the *soul*, which gives off the impression of ''evolving'' but it's us dropping stuff we no longer need. It's not about becoming ''bigger'', ''greater'', or ''more powerful''. It's about becoming less, and more simple..

I agree that living consciously and consciously right-aligning with centre is all about becoming who you are. It's about being here now.

How we choose to frame it or contextualise it is up to us. You are speaking from certain spiritual or religious traditions and that's absolutely fine. This movement into our true centre (which can be seen as evolution if we prefer) can be understood equally well from many other traditions or from a mix of them, or perhaps from none of them. Perhaps it is just viewed as a coming to know one's self more truly.

I studied the topic of ecology and evolution closely and there is nothing about nature that suggests it is divinely inspired to move towards a certain direction. We constantly battle against viruses and bacteria, it is not divine intervention but knowledge that keeps us alive. Many spiritual beliefs we have these days, especially in the developed countries, rest on notions of ''progress'' and ''freedom'' so we tend to think we are ''spiritually evolving''. What I see a lot is an increased interest across the developed world in ghosts, psychic powers, conspiracies, and other phenomena. Nothing suggests increased compassion or closeness to divinity. The world's actually going to the donkeys ((yet another example of that, published yesterday: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaav7266 ))

Either way (and linking it back to the topic), physically we understand why there is suffering. Spiritually there are different explanations. I say suffering is not about 'God' forsaking us, it's about us playing a game of matter and forms, of being attached to things and wanting more, which is causing the separation..

If God or Great Spirit or Source or One...or whatever we want to call ultimate reality...had forsaken us, then we wouldn't even exist. Nothing of this realm would hold from one moment to the next.

This universe would not only NOT have been recreated from scratch post-CERN destruction (i.e., the Mandela effect) and hand-crafted to be nearly identical to prior version(s). No, it wouldn't even be that dramatic. Rather, it simply would cease to exist in the next moment. The universe would simply fail to arise from the field from one moment to the next.

The universe arises and is created anew in each moment. Each moment is contigent on all prior moments and yet is wholly distinct. Formed by and connected by Consciousness. By Intention.
Each breathe recognises a new universe. And that is why, in each moment, there is the freedom to choose anew, to take new decisions, to make a new turn.

Peace & blessings
7L