[Ginsune]

Originally Posted by Gem

People mistake ethics for morals, but morals are values based on beliefs and cultural norms etc, while ethics are grounded in the real world of benefit and harm, and frankly, imposing ones own moral values on others is invariably disrespectful and paternalistic, as the missionary treatment of Aboriginal peoples demonstrates.

Erroneous concept. There is a reason why the words are used interchangeably, people don't get them wrong as more it depends on the application.

Morals are what you, your family, and your religion decide are right and wrong. Ethics are what is decided as right and wrong by society / community as a whole. Ethical is what your culture says is okay to do.


Morally everyone the world over knows rape is wrong, for example. Yes, even those backwater countries where it is common because of the backlash if their mother, sister, or daughter underwent the same.

Ethically in some countries, the rapist is given a slap on the wrist because by state law and cultural mentality that is the "punishment" as decided by the WHOLE. In other countries though the rapist faces a different ethical judgement due to different cultural mentality and as such spends more than a few years behind bars.


Helping at a car accident, for example, has nothing to do with morals per say. A person helps because ethically it is expected of them to help - society says when you see an accident you help. If you don't help, you're an ****.

This this covered comically and yet VERY accurately in Seinfeld when they're tossed in jail because they stand by and giggle while the heavyset guy is being robbed. Morally they could have stepped in if they were brought up to step in - however, given as they were from NYC and I believe one even mentioned this happens on a daily basis or indicated such, they thought nothing of the heavyset guy being robbed. Ethically state law said they had to step in like it or not.


Because if ethics existed like you really seem to think it does business ethics, that special course where one is taught to blindside the little guy with scams & smile while doing it, wouldn't exist. A few months ago, for example, I was dealing with the CEO of a local company. He was ignorant and his responses were improper as per typical conversations procedures. When I learnt he was teaching at the local college I made a little quip about how I hoped he wasn't teaching business ethics because he should be the last person to teach a dog ethics.


For example, if we follow your concept the deforestation of the Amazon is ethically okay. Why? People are benefitting in the here & now, more food, etc., etc., etc. The harm itself won't happen in this generation or even the next.

However, if we were standing face to face you'd be running away from my rather toothy smile before I revealed just how much harm is being done right here & now. This harm is something the average person doesn't know about nor care about. And the people whining "OMG the rainforest" stop thinking about when they don't see constant reminders [TV shows, documentaries, etc.] to remind them they are supposed to shriek 'OMG the rainforest'.

Of the two - the first have poor morals in their selfishness, the second have poor ethics because they are reacting as expected with no real thought.



Ethics and morals are nothing but cultural and social constructs. Take someone from a different culture & throw them somewhere else, and they are a fish out of water.

I'll use myself for this example.

I was born in Canada to British parents both from old families [by old I mean back to the 1500s]. However, since ancestors were involved with the VOC and trade in Dejima, Japanese / eastern cultural mentality and ethics have long since become integrated. There's a reason why one of my employers once wrote his reference letter to include I have the most unique personality he had ever encountered [given my lily white skin, grey eyes, and white-blonde hair, my rather Asiatic cultural mannerism was definitely quite a shock to the European he'd have expected] and he worked for an international environmental lab for fifteen years as regional manager [that meant he did a lot of international flying].

To me, I think nothing of going to an eastern country or even mid-eastern country. I find Japan as much my home as I do Canada or the UK; I was so comfortable within days of arriving [no awkward transitional phase] that my work colleagues in Tokyo wanted to know if I had been born in Japan or lived there prior to moving.

However, I have seen many gaijin with all the ethical [as I said above ethical is cultural rules considered okay] finesse of letting a bull elephant loose in a china shop. They get offended when someone in the local community gets offended because to the tourist or even new immigrant [worker, student, etc.] they're doing nothing wrong. After all, as per the ethical standards [the expectations of their culture] they can do whatever behavior all the time, but in another cultural with different ethical standards such behavior is wrong.

Originally Posted by Gem

You know that saying 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'?

That saying was made to excuse nothing but ignorant greedy behavior. To make the guilty feel not so guilty.

Using aboriginals but North America.

It is a sort of oops sorry I stepped on the aboriginals' toes, that I ruined their culture, that by coming here I brought disease that nearly eradicated them, that I forced them to reserves - but look what "benefit" I brought. They are now educated [research residential schools, my brother is the adopted son of an Elder that survived such he has horror stories that'll make you want to bury the word benefit in horse's sh*t], they now have money HAHA, they have schools, etc., etc., etc. Take a look around your local reserve one day. No, not the pretty front dressed up for tourists but the back regions and tell me "benefit".



Problem with ethics and morals is 95% of society is blind by their own ethics and morals.

For example, a chap who murders the rapist of his daughter because there wasn't enough evidence for the courts to put him in jail -- what has he just broken? Ethics or morals?

How about the drug dealer selling crack cocaine and other drugs, even stuff that can be fatal if taken wrong, on the street corner so that he can actually put food on the table? Ethics or morals?

Until one is capable of viewing the big picture and not just the tiny 2 inch by 2 inch snapshot they can "handle" ... they will remain blind and learn nothing.