Can humans alter the Tao at will?
 

Can humans alter the Tao at will? :smile: I'm asking this thinking in the Tao as the thing that brings the existance and non existance together.

Sure. The tao will react to changes if you wish to make them. But it can be like childhood; children don't come into this world knowing how to walk lol...

Ok :smile: how? just by wishing?

lol wishing can work as it is another part of reality, but personally i wouldn't touch it because everyone who seems to be doing that also seems lost in what they can get by wishing... I've got enough problems without getting myself lost in that forest...

in practical terms the taoists cultivated 'chi'. Turns out that while you are doing that you have a chance to learn all sorts of stuff about the inner world (again by being open), and if you pay attention and don't get too demanding about what you want to get out of it you can learn ways to relate to life that are much more 'effective' for lack of a better word....

as far though as anyone telling you exact steps to take, it isn't set up like that.

It is more set up so that if you are open to new ideas, you eventually get exposed to ideas that help you learn to relate to life more on your own terms. Instead of completely relying on the support of others to 'allow' you to be who you are the way people instinctively do.

Which neither means you have to be 'fiercely independent' and not rely on others for anything whatsoever. Things get very tricky when you start thinking too much...

It doesn't mean either that everything goes some way you think it should, just that you give yourself more freedom to choose how to relate to however you think things happen to be going (including the freedom to make choices in terms of what you think might be happening if you really get into it lol)... and that freedom of choice is where any actual 'magic' is.

So in my mind 'altering tao' isn't as much a matter of trying to get to some desirable outcome. Although again that doesn't mean one isn't allowed to have some destination in mind either.

Simply by relating to life in a more meaningful fashion (to you) than trying to chase the common goals that different humans are taught to have using the techniques that different humans are taught to use, tao changes. And then you have something else to relate to...

Thanks for the answer :smile: Exposing ourselves to ideas that help us learn to relate to life more on our own terms. It seems like a very gradual and slow process.

Let's say that I wanted to change Tao right now. Like if I wanted to project my mind to the Universe and re-arrange my place in it right now because I said so. What would be the fast and easy way?

well tao wouldn't be it, like you say everything is slow and gradual with the tao.

Fastest way is to be in the good graces of god or the aliens or whoever runs this place, so they elevate you and let you do what you want to do. But I suppose they are the ones doing the choosing not you...

next fastest way is to believe, without a signle doubt, that what you want will come to pass. But as I noted early on, there are enough 'wrong' thoughts running around in the world that I would have a hard time actually doing this unless I first spend a long time clearing the land of debris...

So as far as getting there under one's own volition, I'm not sure there IS a fast way. In fact I've seen reasons to believe you HAVE to go through long slow periods to learn what you need to learn, unless someone is just going to bestow it on you... but at the moment I'm not sure how reliable such observations are.

I'm also not of the mind to believe that being able to do what you want to do is actually something I would like to be doing. Just seems like more drudgery to me to be having to run this show.

You can cut your hair but you can't stop it growing.

yes according to the loa if you believe that it will be true.

but according to the loa if you believe it isn't true it won't be.

Which is it?

Thanks or your answer FallingLeaves :smile:


You're right :smile: but wrong thoughts and mistakes are part of the human experience. And time past fast for us. We need to change the Tao now :cool:

part of the problem I see is, we have so many wrong ideas about how to go about change, that without time to learn better ways of doing things any change we make would just make more of a mess.

Not that I think we can actually 'fix' things in any meaningful way ourselves lol...