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Moondance 02-02-2018 02:15 PM

Mistaken Perception
 
Imagine waves on a vast ocean. The ocean (which is a living principle in this thought experiment) has, over time, assigned a limited degree of sentience and perception to each wave. Via each wave the ocean comes to know itself. Each wave can rightly proclaim, from its unique perspective, ‘I am the ocean.’ The wave is the portal through which the ocean manifests a form of self-reflection.

Now, over time the ocean forgets about this self-reflection contrivance (after all the waves have got better things to be getting on with - not least a growing backlog of shipwrecking and natural disasters) and eventually new generations of waves start to reflect, ponder and proclaim that they are, in fact, waves. They forget that they are the ocean’s play, portal and expression and in error believe that they are somehow independent, separate and inherently existing. With this comes a sense of existential anxiety and fear of annihilation.

As far as I can see, in the light of my own realisations and reflections, this is a rough sketch of the nub of the existential predicament - which is basically that of a mistaken perception. From an early age we overlook the ineffable obvious and identify as the limited expression/portal. My intuition (and in some sense it almost feels like a memory) is that when we came out of the womb - if we could have articulated it - we would have naturally assumed that we were this _________ this dynamic occurrence that is Life itself - nothing less.

Something is happening, something is going on, something ultimately inexplicable - and in moments of quietude there can be a sense/recognition 'ahh… this is so obvious… THIS is what I am… I am Life*… that's what this is… Life simply happening…'

And with the seeing of this we can drop our straining for enlightenment, the endless perfecting of the self, the religious dogma and pedantry, the ceaseless compulsions… and rest here, now, THIS… That’s all… because that’s all there is, THIS... creatively unfolding.



* That’s the placeholder I’m using in this particular post. Tao, Source, Reality, God, Awareness… etc. are equally acceptable/questionable.

Iamit 03-02-2018 12:04 AM

Yes of course as always Moondance. Not realizing any of that is also the Ocean, an important communication for seekers so they are not labelled as lacking even though they may feel that they are lacking.

But we have been round that before:)

sentient 03-02-2018 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondance
... we can drop our straining for enlightenment, the endless perfecting of the self, the religious dogma and pedantry, the ceaseless compulsions… and rest here, now, THIS… That’s all… because that’s all there is, THIS... creatively unfolding.


Such a relief.

Thanks again Moondance for the reminder.

slash112 03-02-2018 04:15 PM

Beautiful post Moondance, thanks for that!

iamthat 03-02-2018 08:43 PM

Thank you, Moondance. Beautifully expressed.

If the waves let go of the idea of being waves then all struggle ceases. Yet the waves are still present, doing whatever they do.

So if we can stop considering ourselves as the doer and realise that things still get done even in the absence of a doer, then we find peace.

Peace.

sentient 03-02-2018 10:23 PM

In regard to the ‘doer’, I quite enjoy this quote:

Osho:
Quote:

When people come to me and they ask, 'How to meditate?' I tell them, 'There is no need to ask how to meditate, just ask how to remain unoccupied.


*

Moondance 04-02-2018 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentient
Such a relief.

Thanks again Moondance for the reminder.


Hi Sentient. Glad to hear that something resonated.

Moondance 04-02-2018 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes of course as always Moondance. Not realizing any of that is also the Ocean, an important communication for seekers so they are not labelled as lacking even though they may feel that they are lacking.

But we have been round that before:)


Of course. The ocean presents as ignorance and delusion too - but in the seeing of that, ignorance may start to diminish.

Moondance 04-02-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slash112
Beautiful post Moondance, thanks for that!


Hello Slash. Welcome - and thanks for the comment.

Moondance 04-02-2018 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamthat
Thank you, Moondance. Beautifully expressed.

If the waves let go of the idea of being waves then all struggle ceases. Yet the waves are still present, doing whatever they do.

So if we can stop considering ourselves as the doer and realise that things still get done even in the absence of a doer, then we find peace.

Peace.


Thanks iamthat.

Yes, teasing out the impersonal and non-volitional nature of events brings conscious activity more in alignment with the way things really are - and thus leads to less stress.

But the volition issue is quite complex and can be contentious if not grasped properly. But grasping it properly entails a degree of nondual insight. With this the issue resolves itself.

Iamit 04-02-2018 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondance
Of course. The ocean presents as ignorance and delusion too - but in the seeing of that, ignorance may start to diminish.


To apply the labels ignorant or deluded to seekers would be to add yet further burdens, rather than be clear that they are already fully connected to what they seek (including thier feeling of disconnection) and that even not realizing that is not disconnected.

Then, starting from that positive, one can consider thier response that they do not feel it, until all is gathered in.

Moondance 04-02-2018 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamit
To apply the labels ignorant or deluded to seekers would be to add yet further burdens, rather than be clear that they are already fully connected to what they seek (including thier feeling of disconnection) and that even not realizing that is not disconnected.

Then, starting from that positive, one can consider thier response that they do not feel it, until all is gathered in.


A seeker is, by default, ignorant of their true nature. Ignorant - in this usage - simply means unaware. It’s a description.

If they don’t know that they are ‘fully connected’ then they are ignorant of that fact… until they are not.

Iamit 05-02-2018 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondance
A seeker is, by default, ignorant of their true nature. Ignorant - in this usage - simply means unaware. It’s a description.

If they don’t know that they are ‘fully connected’ then they are ignorant of that fact… until they are not.


Yes.

The question arises however about how movement from feeling disconnected to connected occurs and is facilitated. This will vary from seeker to seeker but if the position that disconnection is impossible is the basis then to communicate that clearly from the start at least removes the idea that there is something lacking in terms of connection. One can then consider what stands in the way of ending the feeling of disconnection whilst being clear that that feeling is not disconnected.

Shivani Devi 28-02-2018 04:04 AM

https://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/b...e-elephant.htm

davidsun 01-03-2018 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

From the linked-to page:
Blind Men and the Elephant – Theological Truth

When it comes to the moral of the Blind Men and the Elephant, it seems that today’s philosophers end their agenda too quickly. Doesn’t the picture of the blind men and the elephant also point to something bigger -- The elephant? Indeed, each blind man has a limited perspective on the objective truth, but that doesn’t mean objective truth isn’t there. In fact, truth isn’t relative at all… It’s there to discover in all its totality. In theology, just because we have limited access to Truth, that doesn’t mean any and all versions of Truth are equally valid. Actually, if we know the Whole Elephant is out there, shouldn’t this drive us to open our eyes wider and seek every opportunity to experience more of Him?
From what I once wrote:
If you wish to be more than just a bouncing ball, pointlessly ricocheting off and between others around you; if your life is to amount to more than a ripple that simply dissipates as it traverses space and time—it is crucial that you understand and appropriately utilize the opportunity inherent in being an aspect of vibrant energy within a much greater, infinitely creative flow of energetic vibration. Your life is a part of all Life, much the way the move*ment of a molecule in its membrane is an integral component of a drum’s total excitation. What you know as Life‑on‑Earth is the conjoint response of our global ‘drumhead’ to a cosmic ‘drumbeat’, partly a function of activity stemming from the sun itself and partly a function of planetary movements. Like a tuning fork, but with much greater complexity because of the tremendous multiplicity and mutuality of our involve*ment, we all ‘vibrate’ together in reflexive co‑motion.
How drop-in-the-oceanic is that?

From the treatise I am currently composing:
Beware, however, as in the case of any purely mechanical analogy, this too may be misleading: The ‘drummer’ in our case is actually the [added phrase: ocean-wave 'driving' wind of] Spirit which lives in and animates everything and everyone everywhere everywhen at once. It’s not like our sun and/or our planetary configurations are especially causal, in other words. Every aspect of Being, including ‘you’, is an influenced and influential, hence functionally integral, aspect of The Flow* of Creativity,* without exception.

* Note: these asterisked words reference the same features of Life that Jesus metaphorically alluded to as ‘the Son’ and ‘the Father’, which many also think and speak of as Christ and God, respectively, just in more action-descriptive terms I think.
How cosmic(ally)-conscious is that?

Woohoo, everyone! :biggrin:

Alice_1 13-07-2018 04:52 AM

Enlightenment is the death of the mind

Death! You think that you are dying - completely and forever. And it's very good to think so, because it kills the ego.
When a person feels that he is dying, he immediately discards all his ego.

You must go through death without hope of survival.

You have to be honest with yourself, all the stories about life after death are fiction.
When you die honestly, you die with absolute despair.
And this absolute despair removes the last ego that you left behind - the spiritual ego that believes that the individual mind is immortal.

And then something amazing happens.

After you die, you are still here, watching everything around. And that observation is the secret of immortality.
In fact, the only worthwhile thing to know is that when you die, the OBSERVER still lives.

What I found in the Experience is that the human soul is God.
And every person has the potential to detect this,
discover your essence, your soul.
And in the process of this discovery everyone becomes what he discovered.

If we were nothing but a projected illusion, which we call the "I", then in death we would melt like a candle.

But you do not get immortality, just listening to me, or someone else trying to explain it.
The only possible immortality is to fully identify with the OBSERVER, with your TRUE SELF before your body dies.

Then you will not die with him.

In traditional Zen, this is expressed in the words: "If you die before death, then when death comes, you will not die"
Richard Rose "After the Absolute"

Miss Hepburn 02-08-2018 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentient
Such a relief.
Thanks again Moondance for the reminder.

Ditto.:smile:


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