Power of Prayer...
 

Did it work?

A: Yes, praise the Lord!

B: No, but God works in mysterious ways that can't be explained.

C: No, but God is testing your faith and takes great delight in your suffering.

D: No, God is punishing you for your sins or karma. It's your own fault.

E: No, because God doesn't exist. Otherwise he wouldn't answer one person's prayer while ignoring the other person and treating them like worthless trash.

---

So is it A, B, C, D, or E for you? Which one of these makes the most sense?

What about F :smile:
As everything is cause and effect, what will be will be regardless. Praying will make no difference but it does seem to help some feel more in control of situations.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I started praying to the Goddess I had much more luck.

True. Although I don't think prayers are meant to feel control over a situation, however. It's basically the same like talking to an imaginary friend and literally does nothing.

Which goddess?

The part that most people miss, is that you actually need to invoke a deity and they need to be present. Then you need to build a relationship with them, which is basically a form of friendship. Then, when you are really in need, they might help you out. However, just praying randomly to some vague, nondescript "God" is not going to do anything.

I have personally been helped by deities a number of times, but that was only after I learnt how to actually invoke and communicate with them. They're not in the habit of listening in on people's private thoughts and granting wishes to all and sundry. Even if you build up a relationship with them, you are asking a friend for a favour and there are limits to how often you can call upon a friend and what they will be willing to do for you.

This may sound ridiculous, but deities are people too. They have their own personalities, idiosyncracies, likes and dislikes. They can take offence and disappear for a while, or ignore you, if you have wronged them in some way.

They really don't like people who are pushy and egotistic. They are much happier to help if you are also helping someone selflessly. They are more evolved than us and exist on a higher plane, but they're not omnipotent and omniscient, there are limits to what they can do, though to us, their actions may appear miraculous. Also, I'm sorry to say, that Deities are limited in number, whereas there are billions of people, so it's best to adjust your expectations accordingly, even if their relationship to time is very different from ours. They are not interested in showing off or showing up for frivolous reasons, if you invoke a deity, you'd better have a damn good reason for it.

Control as is ' mind over matter '

The Great Goddess, God as the Divine Feminine... But I agree with No One, I didn't pray to Her for things, my intention was solely to build a relationship with Her and then when I find myself needing She is always there to aid me. I don't know if that's purely the difference between effective prayer and non-effective prayer. I'd like to say so but then I see some Christian's praying to their God much the same way without success. I have wondered if prayer is more linked to our evolution of ability to manifest our own desires. I became a witch and started practising magick when I found the Goddess. It may not be Her specifically answering me but my own desires in prayer coming to life and creating themselves around me...

What is Magick and how does it work?

Well when I was a Christian I tried very hard to build a relationship with the non cross-dressed God, even going so far as to make an utter fool of myself. And as well placing all my trust in him despite my numerous personal issues he never bothered to look at. But let me offer you some words of my own wisdom: Believing in an invisible friend and the magic of prayers is all fun and games until your life suddenly hits rock bottom and there's literally nothing you can do about it, and no amount of prayer, not even if the entire world prays for you, is gonna move a single grain of sand. That's how I got my wake up call to leave religion.

I'm not having a go at you personally SlayerOfLight. I've heard this referenced countless times from former Atheists and Ex-Catholics that have said much the same things.


The reason why many people today claim to be former Christians is simply because they were never BORN AGAIN to begin with.

To unsaved people; Christianity is nothing more than a philosophy. So when they decide to change their philosophy, they are sincere when they say, “I used to be a Christian.”

Now, they may have once been in a Christian church, and had learned Christian teachings; but they certainly never found Christ as their personal Savior. Many people join a church, listen to the Gospel message, but they have NO faith in God! This is exactly what happened to the Jews in the Wilderness during Moses time. “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

Many people hear the saving Gospel message of Christ crucified, but they have no faith in what they are hearing. Today's pulpits are packed full with such Christ-rejecters. What a sad paradox!



CONCLUSION: Either you are saved now, and always will be; or else you aren't saved now, and never were to begin with! If saved, always saved! Whatever experiences you may have had in the past, or Christian teachings you held for a time, cannot qualify as having BEEN A CHRISTIAN. "Ye must be born again!"

Christianity began as a new birth in Jesus Christ. When it went to Greece it became a philosophy. When it went to Rome it became an organization. When it spread throughout Europe it became a culture. And when it hit America, it became a business.

Most of what is considered “Christian” today is nothing of the such. Without a doubt, the term “Christian” is the most abused, misused and misunderstood terminology of the word widely expressed today.

Any attempt to improve humanity that ignores the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is religious humanism, not Christianity.
Much of the teachings that we hear these days is religious humanism, which denies the sinful nature of mankind and abandons the complete and finished work Jesus did at the cross.

So the next time someone claims “I used to be a Christian,” they've simply never been born-again to begin with, because the second birth is as irreversible as the physical birth. Salvation is NOT reformation, nor rehabilitation, nor education, nor legislation; but rather, regeneration by the Spirit of a Holy God.

(Credit to David J. Stewart)

A.

As long as Lord means God the Creator of the universe.

My prayers are answered with every breath and every drink of water and every piece of food that sustains this life. Anything else I receive is all gravy.

God is always for me and never against me.

maybe you have a more whole understanding of God through the divine feminine that is helpful. I do see God and within and beyond gender and not unlike your beautiful goddess. i'm not into magick unless there is a kind that is for the divine will, but I get what your basically saying. your not so far from Jesus (based on feelings not that i'm speaking for him!)

Typically fundamentalistic logic against someone who left religion: ''They were never born-again to begin with''. Well for your information, you know nothing about me. I actually did accept Christ as my Lord and savior and literally tried very hard to get close to God. But you know what? If what you say is true and I were never born-again despite all the great lengths I've went through as a Christian, then your God is an evil, backstabbing, manipulative maniac unworthy of my love. It's as simple as that.

There are more things to sustain your life than just food and water. For example, it's scientifically proven that loneliness CAN kill you in a slow, agonising way that may take years up to decades. So, do you really consider it an answer to your prayers if your only purpose is to eat, drink, and sleep? I don't know about you, but I'd rather pray for death if that was the case.

It's not about prayers at all.

It's about your connection with your subconsious mind and your higher self.
Consider a prayer something like 'a call' based on speech.
There's no difference between a prayer,a mantra,or an affirmation.They're all triggers,based on your vocal chords.
Once you find how to transfer your voice to the inner worlds,all the above will become avaliable for you.

(If i had to choose,i would go for the B)

So instead of wasting your time with the christian egregore,why don't you try to do the same with your subconsious self?

I have a subconscious, but I don't have a higher self. At least, if by that you mean some perfected and 'enlightened' version of myself up there taking great delight in all the misfortunes of his 'lesser' self on Earth. I also hate to disappoint you that I don't know about any of that new age sorcery stuff such as vocal cords. But fair enough, B it is for you then.

" Once you find how to transfer your voice to the inner worlds,all the above will become avaliable for you."


And how do you do that? :smile:

Slayer I find your pessimism rather uplifting, I can tell you've been around monks. I find your posts are honest but behind the veil there is something that would answer your every question

By training.:smile:

That's a very clever question sky123,but it's a topic that doesn't fit here.
I feel uncomfortable to talk about my training,and i don't want to wreck slayer's thread.
(But i stand for what i said).

I still am since I literally work and converse with them on a daily base, but thanks though. I'm not sure which veil you mean but I'm sure I already know the answers to a lot of things, although most of the truth I learned doesn't exactly amuse me at all.

that must be quite a unique experience. part of me would very easily want the monastic life. the veil i meant was all the obstacles that get in the way and hide the truth. there is almost every permutation of them including ones that almost don't like them but they are on some level obscuring things. i think the truth is unbelievably unbelievable so crazy hardly anyone would believe it

But it fitted in when you advised it on Slayers Post :smile:

" I think the truth is unbelievably unbelievable so crazy hardly anyone would believe "

I personally think life is so simple that we choose to make it complicated :smile:

yes sky that's what I meant. the complications hide things by confusing them, but people believe in the things surrounding what is simple and couldn't believe it if it were not so, like I mean, the truth about Jesus

I have been through it, and it goes back to what No One says, ultimately it's not about prayers being answered, it's about relationship and having a friend up there somewhere you know will never leave you. Who is by your side through the worst of it even when you can't feel them. For many reasons we can't always get what we want in prayer but we can always have a friend. Even if they are imaginary in the end honestly what's the problem with that if they help? Studies have shown religion used in a positive, beneficial way can really aid and support someone through hard times. Of course, a lot of religion is used in the opposite way, negatively, and it's easy to become disconnected from it.

The Goddess has always been here for me, She's never left my side, I might not always get everything I pray for (though, I would say a good 80% of the time I do), but it's Her support and friendship which is the most beneficial of all. Knowing or believing that someone or something cares enough about you to stick around in the worst of it. I may go through tough times but that's just what it means to be human, and I will love Her regardless as I know She loves me. And again what if it's all just imaginary and a projection? Then I am just loving myself in a round about way, being my own support and friend.

I don't pray for the benefits, I pray for the relationship, but the benefits come along anyway as a result of the relationship. Just like any human relationship. Your best friend will do whatever favours they are able to for you. And it's the same with Deity. I don't think Deity necessarily has to be all-powerful or whatever, I don't concern myself with that. I just think if my 'best friend' can help then that's great and I appreciate it a lot. If She can't then it's not a problem, I will try and find some other way.

I think we think very similarly SOL, in fact I can recognise my earlier self and thought process in you.

I realise that our relationship with the Goddess and deities in general sounds a bit mad, or perhaps something akin to wishful thinking. The phrase "imaginary friend" is used quite a lot in this context although I noticed you made a slight adjustment and went for "invisible friend", which is a crucial difference.

It would take a very lengthy conversation between us to go through all the different aspects of the divine and how it can affect your life. I don't wish to attack Christianity either, but to me, that aspect of the Divine did not bring any results or revealed itself to me in any form. I simply cannot say whether the Christian God (or Jesus) is real or has any power over this world, because I lack the personal experience to make a judgement on it.

All I can say is that the deities I have been in contact with are entirely real, have answered prayers, sometimes very directly and promptly, have touched me physically, healed me and have visited, physically touched and healed others when I asked them to, on more than one occasion. When that sort of thing happens, you simply cannot deny the evidence in front of your eyes and you have to accept that they are real beings.

It is true that they are invisible to our physical senses and scientific instruments, because of their higher-dimensional nature, nevertheless, for me at least, their existence is not in any doubt whatsoever, and I am a highly skeptical and scientifically-minded person who doesn't just accept something as real without some sort of proof or evidence.

Magick is traditionally defined as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will".

The basic premise is that everything is connected, so by causing change to one thing on a smaller microcosmic level (using tools and such), you can cause it to happen on the larger microcosmic level (creating change in the real world around you).

It's not like pulling stuff out of thin air, it is more like the ability to subtly influence cause-and-effect on a spiritual-material level. It is about becoming the spinner of your own wheel of fate.

I do magick for the things I can and petition the Goddess for the things I cannot (for example in the case of some magick being too advanced for me). It is like asking a mentor for aid, and I learn in the process. But like I said I do wonder if just the act of desiring something so intently that I pray for it creates the 'change in conformity with will' by itself, considering I have already mastered the fundamentals of that.

Well said!

We seem to be making parallel posts today, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly. As I pointed out just a minute ago, SOL very succinctly referred to an Invisible Friend, rather than an Imaginary Friend, which is a subtle, but crucial difference.

If you made a friend online and only ever spoke to them via chat or skype, they would actually qualify as an invisible friend. Even though they can't be with you physically, because of the distance involved or some other reason, they are still important to your life and still entirely real, despite their lack of physical presence in your life.

Thank you, that surprisingly means a lot to me, I appreciate your sharing :hug3:

Well I'm glad that believing in a female deity at your side had positive influence on you. In my case, I rather felt like the deity I believed in (Yahweh) backstabbed me in the most horibble, cruel way. He let something life-crushing happen in which I trusted him that he wouldn't do. The 'funny' thing is, when this happened I didn't immediately turned him down, but rather accepted it as a test of my faith and expected a compensation of some kind. But everything only got worse from then on. Until someday I realised that perhaps this God might not be so real after all. Religion and it's teachings no longer made any sense to me, so I decided to abandon my former beliefs.

On top of that, I admit that even though I identify myself as an atheist nowadays, sometimes I still believe in god just so I have something/someone to unleash all my anger and hatred upon because of everything that happened to me and being totally isolated and disconnected from this world. So I guess this is more something of an 'imaginary enemy' rather than an imaginary friend, but it does make me feel better even though I know deep down it's totally irrational since he isn't real and makes me look like a lunatic.

Nice to know they were there for you then, of course if believing so helps you feel better. I've never had an experience like that with any deity, only (possible) visitation dreams of certain spirits rather than gods, but I'm rather sceptical about that recently. Imagination can go crazy in certain circumstances, especially if you're alone for a very long time, then wishful thinking may actually to a point become more 'real'.

thank-you too i appreciate this as a hopeful sign for me

Death is fine too.

But I do not pray that way.

I mainly pray in thanksgiving and gratefulness for the small stuff.
Then the gravy seems to take care of itself.

I also do the work on my ego and thought life that keeps me headed in a peaceful, positive direction and thankful.

I do read energies and spiritual nudges or signs to maneuver Life. but this is different than
prayer but stems from prayer life.

If asked or I am nudged to pray for something or someone else then I do that,
but I never see it as a win loose or prayer answered or not answered.
Answering of prayer can take awhile to come to fruition but I leave the
outcome up to the Creator.

I have never really felt alone after discovering my Creator.
I have felt moments and periods of self pity but I will turn it into thankfulness these days
since it serves no real purpose.
I have also done my share of grieving, but that is natural.

I also have to say yes to B. but instead if NO it would be not yet.

Hey Slayer i may be day dreaming here but something i often wonder about is how beautiful God would have to be to make up for the ugliness we have in the world. That hidden beauty is not how God is commonly perceived, but then, why should that perception be correct just because it is common. This being would be very beautiful, but hidden. Just like Jesus was always talking about hidden things. And the fundamentalists make a mistake here, as he also said the stone the builders rejected is the corner stone, the stone being that hidden beautiful God who has no name and just as much Mother as Father. But for whatever reason, is hidden away in a dream of what God could be, Jesus said was true. That's why it's unbelievably unbelievable given the official accounts, but to others very believable

slayer of light-Respectfully I sy this to you-As angry as you come across about how God let you down-I think you still believe in Him. I wonder if it would help you to write Him a letter and express how you feel about what wet down.

Fair enough.

Things unfold in different ways for the individual.In my case,was the result of my kundalini awakening,which granted me access to my energy body.
Access to your energy body means that you can trigger it by inputting 'infos'.
That includes prayers as well.

It's not an one off switch,and i don't know if it's the same for everyone,but i'm sure that if you stick with practise,you'll have your unfoldment.

Yes, that is a real concern.

All I can say is that you need to keep an open mind and be prepared for the possibility that there may be something out there, looking out for you.

LadyMay referred to the Goddess, a universal force that is also present locally and can take a personal form as well. She is in you and part of you. That is just a fact that you will have to come to terms with gradually.

I understand the place you're coming from, it is in effect a hole in your heart, which you are trying to fill with something, anything.

It may be an assumption from my part, of course I can't see your inner world, that is a private matter. However, I do remember very distinctly, the sadness and loneliness that came from being a fully committed and convinced atheist and materialist, even antitheist, who hated "God", in whatever form, even if it turned out to be real. In hindsight, that actually caused a lot of my spiritual and physical ailments, when I had a Kundalini Awakening that went awry.

My own logical leap of accepting the reality of deities was to go the "ancient alien" route and think of them as advanced ETs that can project their astral, l or rather light bodies to earth in order to interact with us. That, BTW is technically true, because they're not of this earth, but they are so much more than just your run-of-the mill ET. We are really talking about universal forces here that can manifest a personal form when needed.

Anyways, for me, even when an actual Goddess appeared in front of me, healed me and gave me a peek of enlightenment, I had a great deal of trouble accepting the reality of the situation and particularly the religious connotations. The gods indulged me for many years and gently steered me towards the truth in little packets, always giving me little nuggets of truth, that steered me in a particular direction, but was never big enough for me to reject it outright. I am now reconciled with the Christian world view and accept it as one valid way of looking at the world, though I am not one myself. It is another long story, how I came to that realisation, so I won't go into it here, but it was a long and gradual process that took years to unfold.

The written word is more powerful than the spoken one.This is a very good idea.
Sometimes when i'm writting- posting things i fall in trance without realizing it and i get accidental triggerings and contacts.
It's another way of making the info pass to the subconsious mind.

That's why i advised slayer to work with the subconsious mind.He's allready there,he's the 9/10 of our being and he hold the keys to everything.
Magicians,astral projectors,psychics,they all have the aid of their subconsious,so they can do these things.
Some are aware of it,some are not.

So if you want to 'learn' how to pray effectively,adress your subconsious mind and ask something like 'show me how i can pray effectively',or 'show me how can i make my prayers to be heard'
If he responds,you'll find your self 'knowing' how to do things out of nowhere.
The problem is that the dude is so vast,that you have to put your request with details, keeping it simple at the same time.

ty lomax-however, I was sincere in that he should address the letter to God-not his subconscious mind. I believe in going directly to the source-Hes upset with God

Praying effectively is all to do with sincerity of ones heart-not subconscious-God always hears our prayers-always-even if we are angry with Him