Would an atheist really go to hell?
 

Is there really a hell? Would an atheist really go there? Watch this video and see what you think...


https://youtu.be/pmp3UNjeu0k

No. Just no....unless they created a hell of their own making.

Here is a quite beautiful story of one lady's experience that she recounts decades after the event.

https://youtu.be/KwCyEhYlyis

It's all in the mind :biggrin:

Not so long ago during the meditation I received idea: "you die normally and go to hell, or commit suicide and go to heaven". I don't know about origin of that idea, but I think that hell won't be so scary, ha ha.

As only words and deeds count in life an atheist could easily end up in heaven.

Ego Death:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death


It has been said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIKQCwDXsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ5B70ac_9M

Blog:
http://shinzenyoung.blogspot.com/201...1_archive.html

Thanks sentient for your contribution, there is a kind of anti-hell sentiment due to Christianity, but as far as I can see even early Buddhism referred to multiple hell realms. I'll watch your links ASAP :)

edit:interesting issue, DP/DR, I say that because I willingly went into a void like space because I think it is where the old self breaks down, but while I was in there I found that it was completely dark (not hell like, just dark), and to do what I had to do and go further I needed light to see by. After a few days I thought to myself "Jesus is the name associated with light par excellence," and that day light started to shine in the black void, and progress unfolded. When I think of this void as the place that Buddhists aim to enter and accept as the end point I can't help but think that for me this was the point where I first looked to Jesus in full consciousness and with an awareness that I couldn't create the light that I needed in the dark by myself.

I told someone this story and he said to me that any deity would have given me light, it's an interesting idea kind of related to this thread, and I find myself wondering about the possibility that any deity would do, and if I was programmed to think of Jesus, or whether it really could only be Jesus who supplies that light. I did have an experience many years ago where I was suffering and I asked Jesus for help and the suffering disappeared instantly, so I might be primed to just turn to Jesus again, it's altogether an interesting topic to me anyway.

django, your story, your beautiful faith in Jesus was lovely.

The videos you posted, could they have been about a purgatory process?

In the blog link (I posted) “Shinzen talks about the two sides - heavenly and hellish - sides of the bhanga” (the dissolution of the ego) with 3 videos: “Experiences of the Dissolution (Bhanga) Process”.

Sounds horrible, but it is good you brought this subject up, as it could potentially happen to meditators or anyone and Shinzen explaining the process a bit gives some understanding about these hell-like visions.

I very much doubt if being an "ATHEIST" would take a person's Soul into a Hell-like state or situation on the Astral/Spirit realm.

Many people who don't happen to believe in "God" nevertheless live by true and good ways, of kindness, compassion and intelligence. It's what we resonate with, not what names we call it, that decides what our Soul is really up to. One can live by good ways yet not wish to believe in what men call "God". Or even be into reading the Bible.
There are some people who have never heard of the Bible. There are animals for instance who have no concept or clue about what we have dreamed up in our philosophies, yet they don't go to "Hell" when they pass over! they go to what they truly are inside their hearts. So do we.

I watched the 3 videos, and using his terms I embraced dissolution in principle a few decades ago, and proceeded to unravel my 'self' as carefully as I could, so I recognise his story as mine to a large extent.

I didn't know though that dissolution can be blissful, I can't quite believe that in this moment cos I've never heard that before, I am open to the possibility that blissful dissolution is possible but I would need to learn a lot more about people's experience and outcome to acknowledge it. I flat out don't understand how no dissolution could lead to an end stage.

Of uncomfortable dissolution though I am a master, and I followed it through to 'emptiness' where I felt empty for a year or so, if I had talked to a Buddhist s/he might have restructured my perspective to find joy in emptiness, maybe, it's not something I understand, the joy of Buddhist emptiness.

So many things to still learn about and understand. I might start a thread on Buddhist emptiness versus feeling empty, I'd like to hear more from Buddhists about it.

Really interesting.

Shinzen went with the Virgin of Guadalupe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WtPrOE1JSk

And subconsciously I went with the White Horse. The most immaculate and pure principle.

Wonder if we are talking about the same thing happening?

This is an extremely Christian perspective and I apologise for that, but I wondered after reading your post whether the better notion might be that the soul does indeed seek the appropriate level that it attunes to via karma, but Heaven is not available except via accepting the need for Jesus' spirit in our hearts.

This is actually what he claimed, and my personal experience is that a lot of things opened up in a good way once I recognised that I was not capable of initiating 'light' on my own.

But just to mention, I was determined to get to enlightenment on my own, and before 'dissolution' and emptiness in the void I would have had a very negative idea of people who needed a crutch like Christianity. It is only since the moment I acknowledged I couldn't create light on my own that the words recorded in the bible have come more alive for me.

Things like heaven and hell and other human ideas I am open to examining though, it's too easy to swallow a religion lock stock and barrel, whereas as you say so much is just made up ideas.

Again I'll watch your link ASAP, I'd like to hear more about your white horse image and the occasion you went with it though.

edit: watched the link, I think it must be natural to posit the deity archetype we are most familiar with, I would like to examine whether choosing Jesus as deity has merit above and beyond choosing a cultural archetype, is there any spiritual outcome that would make such a choice intrinsically better?

A very long and convoluted story that is …..
I think so too, but beyond that it could, me thinks, also be the deity one was connected to in past life, if one has got strong memories of it - so a bit like ‘unfinished business’.

Besides, what is the difference, if any, between a deity and an entity?
Are deity archetypes also entities? Divine entities.

I feel/felt a bit more “entityish” about my ‘white horse’, (at that time) even though it is more like an energetic function and a cultural mythological symbol.
But Jesus is also a cultural archetype of Middle Eastern origin – no?
To the Arabs he was a Prophet, to the Christians he is the ‘Savior’ (no?), to me he represents a true ‘Spiritual Warrior’ serving People and the ‘Source’ and his death on the cross represents courage of surrender to ‘God’ and resurrection - and by that he serves as an example for us, and as such, is there really any better archetype?

The Cross though is one of those universal archetypes found in almost all cultures, even prior to Christianity: “patterns and images that derive from the collective unconscious and are the psychic counterpart of instinct” - as Jung put it.
https://i0.wp.com/www.warriormindcoa...amans_drum.jpg
As such the cross to me represents the point where the horizontal and vertical paths meet, which is our life situation and an ascent on the vertical – ‘the spiritual path’. When we ascend on the vertical – our view of the horizontal changes.


But after the ‘ego-death’ and its 'resurrection' – what archetype follows now as your personal divine entity?

I think that in the Eastern systems, it is described that when we die our soul leaves through different openings.
In the Buddha’s teachings the different kinds of rebirth follow depending which door our 'mind' leaves the body and in the best scenario, our consciousness should leave through the crown of our head.
Some Taoists point to the third eye as the best.
In the Shamanic – it perhaps is the Causal Chakra area.

I think it could be a bit similar with ‘ego-death’ – which gate or opening (or alternatively, which chakra) was activated when we surrendered, had a blackout and were brought back to mind-body consciousness ‘rearranged’ and this might determine the deity visions and the ‘nature’ of the deity we got. Lower gates might be quite hellish.

I don’t know, so I am just ‘sketching’ here.

If something is more than an archetype then it must be an entity, it must be an identifiable being. Jesus as archetype is a very different proposition to Jesus as an entity, and the difference is in a way my earlier question. Is Jesus an archetype or a distinct entity with powers. Same with your white horse, the Hindu and Buddhists deities etc. This is an interesting question in itself, though in the end any opinion we might come to remains just that, there is no way (yet) to measure entities.


My new archetype is 'the Father', the One that Jesus himself deferred to. Not because Jesus did, but because I feel a direct relationship between me and Him.


Interesting point. I surrendered in my heart chakra.

django
"My new archetype is 'the Father', the One that Jesus himself deferred to. Not because Jesus did, but because I feel a direct relationship between me and Him.
I surrendered in my heart chakra".

:smile:

Who would go first to hell , if there was such thing, the pope or the atheist ?

Good point, Popery isn't a guarantee of anything :smile:

The one who says, “I have come to know him,” and yet doesn’t keep his commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 1:6

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23

' In the Buddha’s teachings the different kinds of rebirth follow depending which door our 'mind' leaves the body and in the best scenario, our consciousness should leave through the crown of our head. '

Can you point me to that teaching please, it's something I have never come across.

Hi sky, this is a quote from sentient's post, not mine.

Look up the Practice of Phowa - it should be there somewhere.

Sorry, mybe I need new glasses :smile:

Thanks.........

All these processes and procedures are explained and described in 'The Tibetan Book of the Dead', or (sub-title) 'The After-Death Experiences on the Bardo Plane'.

My copy is very well-thumbed 1978 copy by Dr. W.Y.Evans-Wentz, from Oxford University Press.


It tells you everything you need to know seen from Evans sitting for years at the feet of a Tibetan läma.

For those who still look for heaven and hell a little story by Inelia Benz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=runN_1F5uRo&t=26s

Atheists aren't any more likely to end up in Hell than anyone else.

No, the genuine Atheist [a-theism does not mean materialism] will not go to hell, because the Atheist is closer to Divine Truth than he realizes.

There is a theological school of thought, which I personally use, called "Via Negativa," which basically takes the path of denying or negating God as a way to come to an understanding of what God is. Google: "Apophatic Theology."

A quick quote that aptly describes Via Negativa, from the Wikipedia article regarding Apophatic Theology:

"We do not know what God is. God Himself does not know what He is because He is not anything [i.e., "not any created thing"]. Literally God is not, because He transcends being." -- John Scotus Erigena

The Atheist is just one step behind the natural philosopher and Buddhist. The Atheist will say to themselves: "God does not exist." And the natural philosopher and Buddhist will take that line of thought one step further and ask: "Then what is the quiddity of non-existence?"

The Atheist will say: "I don't believe in God because he is nowhere to be seen or observed." The natural philosopher and Buddhist will take that one step further and ask: "Then what is the quiddity of Nowhere?"

The Atheist will say: "God is not real." The natural philosopher and Buddhist will take that one step further and ask: "Then what is the quiddity of Non-reality?"

The Atheist will say: "God is nothing." The natural philosopher and Buddhist will take that line of thought one step further and ask: "Then what is the quiddity/suchess of No-Thingness [sunyata]?"

Turn on the LOVE/LIGHT and the boogieman disappears.

The true and actual reality is about the timeless, and eternity. Spirit, involving the Almighty.

This material and organic situation is about consequences of a fall.
Our origins, ( and our actual situation ), is in the angelic, and Spirit, involving eternity, and the timeless.
Scripture states, "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

You cannot deny your fallen and sinful situation in the end, and judgement is a result.
"But God has laid upon Him, the iniquity of us all."

Jesus became the Lamb of Atonement for our sakes. "The just for the unjust, to bring us to God."
God is the author of Salvation.

One needs to acknowledge their fallen and sinful situation in order to repent, and to receive the perfection of Jesus, placed upon them by God to avoid coming judgement.
"For God so loved the world..."

Hell isn’t a literal destination in my conception . It’s a state of consciousness, the same way heaven is too.

Quite true, and they can unmake it if they do.

What people fail to comprehend is the perfection and purity; the complete righteousness of the living God, of which the un regenerated human animal falls so far short.

Apart from the sacrifice, the shed blood of the One who is the Alpha and Omega, there can be no hope or salvation.
Which salvation was wrought for them.

For most human beings it is not at all a given that there's spiritual phenomena. Most people believe that there is. Atheists are perfectly entitled to their lack of beliefs and why should they be punished at all for something that is based on beliefs? And why be concerned with spirituality if it's of no interest to you? Atheists have a good starting position for spiritual practice because it contains less baggage (beliefs pushed unto them in childhood), at least if they're raised without religion. Most other people tend to see what they already believe in.

And I enjoyed what Pseudonymus wrote..

:hug3:

This comment :smile:

As someone who identified as an atheist for many years - I'd say that I'd be more likely to experience a very long state of nothingness after death as nothingness is what I believed in.
I short circuited that experience by having it in life instead lol.

Such an interesting comment.

I can vouch for such questioning.

I spent many years as an atheist and I also spent quite a lot of time exploring these sorts of ideas and feelings.

As a result, when someone asks me what religion I am or what I believe, I now say that I am a 'nothing' - as in I believe in the beingness contained or the possibility of being contained within the nothing.

I currently have no other name for this state other then 'nothing' lol.

So I went from believing in nothing to being a nothing so that I could be a something... Lol...

What I noticed from studying and annalysing ndes, many people have different experiences. Some of them will tell you there is a devil and a hell, while others won't. One can talk about a ''hell of their own making'' but then why are Christ and/or God present in some of those ndes confirming the whole thing to be true? Is this a false god that they also created subconsciously?