How does karma works??
 

Hey guys
I've been having this doubt in my mind for a while now. I want to know that what is karma. Does it really exist?? If it does, how it works..... I've been trying to find an answer but I still haven't....so I thought this is the right place to ask this...

Hope someone could give me a good explanation

Thank you

Kamma.
 

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm

This might help...

Just to add... in Buddhism it is Intent not Action that causes negative Kamma..

It's just another word for the law of cause and effect except that it works at a metaphysical level rather than at a physical level. Personally, yes, I believe that it's true however I'm unable to prove this claim.

I want to know that what is karma. Does it really exist?? If it does, how it works...

There are two other questions implied. Firstly, is reincarnation a fact? Secondly, is there a purpose to it all?

If reincarnation is a fact and we take on different bodies for the purpose of learning and growth, then the idea of karma makes perfect sense.

If reincarnation is not a fact then all idea of karma and purpose becomes meaningless. People do what they do, they die, and that is the end of it.

So for me, the idea of reincarnation, karma and purpose is the best explanation of why we are here. We all get what we deserve or what we need, and everything is fair.

If we were learning to play the piano, we would not expect to become a master of the piano in one lesson. So we have regular lessons and in the end we become proficient at playing the piano. It is the same with life in different bodies.

All I would add about karma is that the idea of karma as reward and punishment is somewhat simplistic. I prefer to consider karma as the tendency to balance. Where we are out of balance, karma acts to restore the balance. Which is why (for those with an interest in astrology) karma is considered to be ruled by the sign of Libra, the scales.

Peace.

Karma does not exist, it is a belief system that belongs to religious doctrines.

Spend a life time striving to perfect yourself through purifying your morals so that you can come back & do it all again next time, only hopefully in slightly better shoes, until you finally get out of here forever.
Or see life for what it is & start taking responsibility for the destruction caused by civilization so that your descendants can live a better life than the one they are heading for, & so that we can end the suffering that is taking place all around the world.

Kamma refers to the volition specifically. " Volition", "intent", "motive" describe the desires and aversions that motivate or compel people down to the underlying attitudes such as kindness or animosity. In essence, volition, or kamma, is any urge that moves the mind. Such motions of mind are called the productions or the outcomes, and of course a kind, positive disposition will bring about good results, whereas a bitter, acrimonious disposition will produce bad outcomes.

So we have a 3 part process: 1) Kamma (or volition) produces the 2) potential for 3) outcomes, and those outcomes manifest to conscious awareness when all the conditions that enable them to arise come together.

That just an explanation in the sense that it refers to things we can actually notice for ourselves, primarily the nature of our own intent.

Kamma, as described in Buddhist texts, more appied\s to the concept of 'rebirth', which is different to 'reincarnation'. Simply speaking 'rebirth' regards each moment arising upon the complete annihilation of the previous. 'Reincarnation' regards 'whole lives' be they in the physical or on another dimensional plane.


Balance is the non-volitional. All volitions disrupt balance to a lesser of greater degree. Hencewhy the meditation is pure awareness or pure observation, which is non-volitional - choiceless observation.

When the volition ceases like this, the potentials created by the volitions of the past still have to arise to conscious awareness, but they can pass freely, without the stickiness of aversions and desires - resistance, avoidance, clinging craving etc. As the volition has ceased, one ceases to create the potential for further manifest, and the old potentials continue to arise momentarily and pass away. Eventually all the potentials manifest and they expire altogether - and one is utterly diffused... for want of a better word.

The idea that karma does not exist is simply another belief system.

Peace.

There is a state of oneself for use of a better word that is at peace.

There cannot be peace when in one's heart and mind carries an energy where peace cannot reside.

Life / karma has a way of showing you what is required in order to restore a peaceful self.

How does one feel, express themselves from a state of unrest?

For a time it will be like the hamster running round and round on it's wheel, creating more momentum and seemingly not getting anywhere.

The moment the karmic wheel stops, one won't find the need to run ..



x daz x

Well I was clearly referring to the religious origins of Karma, which appear to be a contrast to the explanation you have here. This is more like cause & effect, not incarnation as a series of trials.

A belief yes, a belief system no! It's an observation.

I just learned it in Buddhist study, which includes the medation along with the discourse teachings, but people usually want to believe there are 'reasons for everything' so they tend toward a religious explanation which is 'true' rather than an explanation that refers to observable things. The Op want to know how it works, so I gave it my best shot. No one will ever know what's going on exactly, because it is fundamentally mysterious and can never be reduced to some sort of acquired knowledge, but the nature of intent and/or attitude, and the sorts of outcomes they bring about, are quite obviously noticeable in principle. The post that explained that it's best to be morally pure relates directly to this, as ethics isn't in what people do so much as it is in the motivation for doing it.

The use of the word Karma appears to me to be used here out of context. It belongs to religion, what you are talking about is psychological.

Astro, yes and this matches kamra. Think in terms of language. I myself don't use old or outdated language, we move away such word and usage, don't we. Did our ancestors have such words as you have (know) today. The knowledge is the same. If you wish to use these words then do it. We try to explain new idea with old words and once you use new words, words they did not know, you feel it changes? Absolutely cause and effect through incarnation. Do you think a person can get it right in only one try? Also keep in mind the idea comes from practice and experience where a person saw something, a previous cycle so there it would be manifested whereas if it wasn't encouraged and taught it wouldn't happen. imo, don't think new words mean new things but think in terms of the audience. It is easier to understand common usage and one should try to mix the words in ways it can be understood imo.

I'm basically paraphrasing the Buddhist philosophy on Kamma. I summed it up as best I could, as this was the request of the OP.

My understanding that karma is more of a realization that everything is connected and in perfect balance.

Karma is a little bit like God, it's too mysterious and profound to be truly understood. It's a part of God, no doubt, but for beings like us it is beyond us to try and quantify how it works. That is a part of human nature though, to try and understand things. It's OK to want to try and understand karma, but why do you want to understand it? so you can work the system? is it to relieve your anxiety and comfort you?

if you need to work the system you will only hurt yourself. Plus, if you believe what I've said, then you can easily recognize the folly and impossibility of attempting to understand karma enough to work the system.

if you only want relief, then you only need to find enough evidence to convince your self that karma is truly out there. You can begin to look for the signs right now, they will show up the more desperate you get. When you've had enough you can let go of the search. When bad things happen, you will still be tempted to doubt karma, but it won't be an impossible task to have faith in the universe. It's always hardest at first.

Absolutely agree.

Karma is the connections everything shares. The specifics of those connections are most often beyond our ken though - how would we know what events in a someone else's previous life caused something to happen??? We can't all be an Edgar Casey.

I think the important take-away is to know life is complex, and there could be many forces we are unaware of, so we should keep our eyes open and know there is a lot we don't know - can't know.


.

I don't know where you got that idea from.


If kamma is understood as volition then a person realises that they are responsible in the knowing that any intent on their part will produce results. This then inspires a different set of ethics based on how nature works, rather on arbitrary social norms where people are demoralised just for being different, even though they didn't actually do anything wrong or harmful.


If one tries to twist it to their advantage, what does that say about the nature of their volition?


But there is such a thing as intent that motivates people.


When bad things happen that makes kamma relevant in that the way one reacts to circumstances drives their intent.

And you appear to be missing the fundamentals!


Isn't this touching on the crux of the matter?

If one is self serving then they will have to face the consequences of their actions further down the road, in this life or the next. That this is the way for everyone & that life is suffering, with the aim of the game being to escape the cycle of reincarnation.

Isn't that the teaching of karma in both Buddhism & Hinduism?

Well, I could go into it more deeply, but no one has requested I do and I don't want to bore everyone; however, where you say I miss the fundamentals, I speak of the impetus which impels, and even compels the actions. Thus I'm speaking of something more fundamental than actions.

Also, in regards to reincarnation. What I'm talking about in that regard is the cycle of 'rebirth'. "Reincarnation" is the rebirth that happens on death of one body and the rebirth in the new. Kamma relates to rebirth in each moment, and reincarnation occurs in the continuum of rebirth. Thus I speak of that which is more fundamental than reincarnation.

Gem, you've elaborated in sum very nicely. This bit in particular really gets to the heart of it, IMO. The contrast to mainstream society (wherever) is particularly effective.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

Hey there Daz, yes that's very true! And...karma continues to find you and reveal itself ever more, even when you've previously attained some level of awareness, peace, and centre.
I'll share a little something very recent which illustrates what I mean, just for example.

I had a very disturbing dream last night which I could not understand, but it was desperately tragic (a man murders his parents after living under his abusive father and his loving but submissive mum who was deemed complicit). He is afterwards overcome by memories of past lives of having murdered and calls out in anguish...that he doesn't want to murder anymore and to be overcome by his darkness, ever again.

I shifted into lucid dream mode and realised this was actually not my experience and I was not the protagonist, and YET it felt so very, very familiar. I was so confused until I called out for help from the guides. I had told them to remove all obstacles...sure enough, here you go.

I then realised...received the understanding...that I had been allowed to experience another's past life remembrance (re-experience) because it directly affected me. It included a moment of what was a critical turning point. And I realised my failing. That was actually my first lifetime as a woman, and (like so many women) I was also abused and raped in what so often passes for "marriage". I was too broken to remove myself and my son from that situation, and he later murdered us both.

Now...now I understand why I risked my life so that my children wouldn't be b*stards in the next lifetime...and also why I was so low of mood in that next short lifetime as the small silent one. I felt culpable because the prior go-round, I did not have the preparation or strength of spirit to endure life as a woman, being abused and certainly touched without love or consent (rape). I did not have the strength of spirit to get out of there and survive on the margins.

The next time around, though, I did !!! I just didn't have the perspective till last night to put the pieces together from a more cumulative, connected, and unbroken perspective. And it also allowed me to directly experience and thus more deeply realise what was going on with the other soul...what a deep loss, to feel betrayed by your parents, even your loving but weak and thus unreliable mum. Understanding brings a lot of compassion...apparently, it was his mum's love (me), no matter how insufficient in action (unable to protect him from an abusive dad), that brought him round to a place where he never wanted to murder again, in any lifetime.

I'm also feeling a lot better about that otherwise miserable short silent life, because I stood for what I believed in, even though it seemed I had failed everyone and had nothing to show for it. It takes more strength of spirit than I can even begin to describe, to endure life as a woman here in this place...especially after lives as men...but goddammit, I'm learning :hug3: And I challenge any man to take the test the next lifetime or three :wink: and build some serious, massively hard-core strength of heart and spirit...I cannot even describe it. You will have to experience it for yourself :hug:

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

No one except for the person who’s post you have quoted & then dragged into a one sided & convoluted discussion!

Where I say you’ve missed the fundamentals of karma, you speak of psychology & philosophy.....

So if you know the fundamentals of karma, please tell us. I'd like to know your point.

Very well put. I have never heard consciousness put this way in discussing its role in karma. Is this a traditional or nontraditional view?

Can consciousness change karma in a moment? We are talking about awareness, enlightenment, awakening.

If you wish to call these balance, ok. As you know karma ends, is consciousness at that level?

It's the Buddhist teaching on Kamma and rebirth. Gotama the Buddha said Kamma is the volition and the teachings on kamma rest on that premise. Hence Buddhist teachings, at least Gotama's teachings, on Kamma are about volition.


In order to look into 'what is' it is necessary to stop trying to make it 'as you want it to be'. Thus the volition ceases when one 'sees it as it is', and that's liberation from 'cycle of rebirth'. This basically means that what we now call 'the ego', the false sense of self, ceases, and it wont be 'reborn'... at least, not as 'you'. In that sense, it's entirely momentary, but the potentials of past volition/kamma still have manifest to conscious awareness, so 'life goes on' as it were.

Ok, I wish not to impose on anyone, so I'l continue the discussion only if prompted directly.

Absolutely a prime example of how karma influences and effects individuals .

It's not that common I would say generally speaking where individuals get to understand and resolve the nature of their experience that is karmic based while in their current incarnation .

I don't think it's entirely necessary for people at the time to understand that what happens or what is felt is due to past energy in order for things to be resolved but there is a shift felt and acknowledged when the penny eventually drops ..

As you know I had 3 years of not feeling happy or worthy of happiness until the reasons for that surfaced and then another 3 years healing the matter .

I would say individuals need at some point to understand the dynamics of such experiences to truly get an understanding of how such past energies effect them in the present moment ..

You can't outrun or outbox your shadow as the saying goes, one also can't outrun their karma ..if they believe in it or not, makes no difference ..



x daz x

How pragmatic!

I can see you have been peering down that tunnel of Buddhist thought & making sense of the situation.

Is this the expansion of consciousness at work?

Add sarcasm.

When I said I'd only discuss if prompted, I didn't mean I'd respond to being baited, so I'm gonna leave you to it now - sorry if I don't reply to you from now on.

I don't appreciate your accusation, I am angry with you for treating me with ignorance!

I have expressed my frustrations with your one sided attitude. Talking with you has been a thorough waste of my time!

You couldn't even apply your own values or senses to this discussion, you have shown no consideration for my perspective. You have dictated to me!!

I have a strong point of view, but I was not ramming it down any ones throat. It was you who approached me remember!!

I expected my last post to have marked the end of the discussion between us; I do not want this to degenerate any further, but you have earned a piece of my mind!!

I've got nothing more to say to you on this matter.

The difficulty with karma are inclusion of the elements of speech and thought where we are focusing on action. Where we say karma is determined by action imo includes not only what one does but what does not do is or is in how karma works. The multi foundation of karma are acts, speech and thought (and not appearance but truth).

Hey there Dazzer! How have you been?
Yup, makes no diff ;) ...and now I'm much stronger, I suppose I'd rather know now. For the perspective.

The more I learn, the more I get why I was so resistant to looking at past lives for so long. I was kilt in like 5 of 6 of them, LOL :biggrin: and the last, I did myself in by accident... Pretty macabre humour here, LOL... You know you've got some perspective when you can see the humour in this level of tragedy and really just feel the residuals...the love and the awareness, mainly. It's brand new & I still have no real memory of that life at all, only a few brief scenes where I was shown giving a long embrace to my son at different times in his life. My dress looked archaic and old-fashioned, for sure. I don't normally recall much this kind of detail (type of clothing) but I was shown the scenes via the guide. No pre-death scene per usual like when I remember. It's funny, all that ever remains is love, pain, and intention relating to key issues...in other words, the shaping of who we are.

Hey, it's not like I got any preparation for being a woman after 3 lifetimes as a tall, strong, easygoing gent...it is total buggers and you screw up royally in the courage department the 1st go round, simply because you're trying to comprehend how to get by with nothing in your pocket AND maintain your dignity. It's a zen koan...the answer is, there is no way to "get by" with nothing in your pocket AND value your integrity. If you just suck it up and take it, the fallout on others like your children is simply horrific and cannot be excused. You simply have to go balls out and have the courage to meet your death every day. Women's balls being on the inside...it takes immense strength of heart, and much practice manifesting your integrity in word and deed -- and along the way, you're gonna take a lot of beat downs, including routine rape, abuse, and early death. Whilst most probably being despised, judged, and mocked...as humanity have always despised the weak and have brutalised them mercilessly.

The physically weak are the punch bags of the physically strong, and all women have historically been the punch bags of men ("punching bags" in US). Most women historically were often penetrated or routinely penetrated without consent and certainly without love (it's called "marriage", where women were property transferred from fathers to husbands). Along the way, we can bear kids and spread whatever love we can...and the hope is always that in time, the rest of humanity receive enough of that love to have the epiphany that young man did, and many other epiphanies as well...that lead them away from darkness and toward agape, toward the love and light that we are.

In that situation of historical oppression and violence, there is nothing to do but absorb the blows till you break and your time here is done. You can take it lying down, or you can take it standing. After my first screw-up where I was spiritually beat-down and broken, and I failed my son -- next go round, I CHOSE to take the oppression standing up, and as my one reward you might say, I got to choose my own death (so to speak, LOL) :D

As a woman, you're not strong and you're easily beat down and raped...and no one values your humanity like that of men, certainly not historically. In order to transcend, you've got to laugh at death and greet it with a heartfelt smile daily simply to stand your ground. Where you can break or you can die (or both), either from abuse or deprivation (living on the margins), throughout most of history. If you as a woman don't resort to deceit and manipulation (which I did not), you probably won't live long. And predictably, I did not, in either lifetime. Of course, the sick fact is I survived longer being abused and raped daily than I did living more honourably on the margins. Also predictable, eh? Because surviving is not the same as living, no matter how menial and difficult the life.

So I think I sort of accidentally figured out one of the eternal truths, and it's a slingshot to growth because nothing intimidates you...just nothing. Not death, not violence, and not even cruelty. When you've got nothing to lose, and nothing in your pocket, what can they possible take from you (aside from your children)?
But it's not easy and no one thanks you for it, either. Just to be sure I cover that, thank you for all you and everyone else here at SF have done for me. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart :)


I suppose not, LOL :) But if you can, wouldn't you want to know and resolve it? Once you're ready to handle it? For myself, I feel it is yes. Because if we don't move forward and love and forgive when we can, look what happens. It can take many lifetimes. I feel pretty certain I had no memory of what had gone before in any of those other lifetimes...just the residual feeling...love, pain, and soul connections brought fwd. Those things we all have. They register at some subconscious level (i.e., familiarity, or phobias, etc.) but generally no one understands these things well prior to attaining a much deeper level of awareness.

What's your position on it, speaking for your own experiences and karmic stuff? If that's ok to ask...otherwise, no problem.


Yes...this also really resonates. I have had a lot of pennies dropping over the past year, and there really was a bit more of a real shift in spirit around the spiritual new year in September, having to do with a mutuality of authentic love, ownership, contrition, and forgiveness...all just in spirit but ultimately perhaps leading to that reconciliation somewhere, someday to be actually manifested in our day-to-day existence, which would be a lovely thing. Peace, agape, equanimity, and reconciliation on the ground...all good things in the world we live in, and in one's life too really, if we're lucky enough to have them. In due time, I like to think we all will merit that fortuitous situation :thumbsup: where we live as one in direct expression of who we are (at core, i.e., simply who we truly are, without obstructions).

There is a real push to manifest love in being and doing right now, to remove all obstacles to the natural outpouring in word and deed (manifestation) of the love we are in spirit (illumination). I'm picking up the vibes very strongly and I'm suddenly hearing it from all manner of unrelated channels, including traditional religious ones. It's all connected. Just when you may observe very little of who you are or what you do in the waking world is impactful (true in some superficial or surface measures), you also see reminders about manifesting authentic love and how every intent has a karmic outcome. Intend good things, then, right? In the highest good of all :) And hopefully, manifest them as well, as best we can.


That's right, I remember you mentioning in other places. What was the situation there? Was it something similar to what I've been discussing? It's funny how very universal and commonplace these situations were. It's funny how we get the same situations over and over in new lifetimes...i.e., yet another loving but weak and unreliable mum -- or perhaps now it's one's dad or one's (ex) partner etc...(or perhaps all of these, LOL). Or say low mood again in this life which you've got to own and bolster (no getting out of it through accidental death or what have ye), residual from carrying guilt over real failures and real rejections (murder, etc) that have not been healed and reconciled properly in prior lives to date. We've all been there at some point, it seems.

Here's sending some love and hugs to you in dealing with whatever you've been going through :hug: And here's hoping we all taste a little agape on earth, manifested in a mutuality of authentic love, contrition, forgiveness, and reconciliation for one another in the context of that greater circle of belonging.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

I believe that it’s not a good idea to let go of the meaning of words for the sake of popular trends. The “language” may be old but it isn’t irrelavent.
I’m learning about ancestors currently & what has been told is that when descendant are connected to their ancestors, then they are able to communicate there wisdom over millenia.

I’m learning that our integrity is in our past, not in the present or the future.

So I feel inclined to disagree with you because popular trends can undermine culture & comprimise its integrity & value.


I did say in a previous post that I’m interested in the relationship of karma with Buddhism & Hinduism, which both present the teaching that karma is about incarnation as a series of trials; something I disagree with.

But I was ignored...

Perhaps it is your karma to be ignored!! :smile:

But seriously, do you disagree with the idea of reincarnation (without which any idea of karma makes no sense)?

Or do you disagree with the idea that the process of reincarnation is a series of trials? In which case, what is the purpose of all these lifetimes.

Life does not have to be a trial. There are many joys in life, but we tend to learn more from our difficulties.

And if karma and reincarnation is a fact then it doesn't matter whether we agree with it or not - we are still subject to it.

Peace.

I was unaware these systems had the word trials in them. Interesting.

Is the concept of trials part of these beliefs and are they the same as the western concept is. Thank you for letting me know this. And you also make a great point, recognizing how words cross over generational ways and in time mask every belief thus far that have new ideas to the old. Still I'm not dissuaded as something is going on like it...lol.

You know, even in my own system the word trial is used but I don't stereotype it. I disagree with the use of it but it wouldn't cause me leave. For instance, what happens if you fail a trial?

Does creator speak to us. Personally I see some ideas should be changed when and if they need to be, and truthfully it seems the larger audience knows something teachers in many respects argue against. Some things are true and some are not I feel.

In this respect I have found I can point out errors in my own system to question so I sure can point out what I see in others as well...lol.

Some say when you die you move into the spirit world, whatever that is. Who knows.

Now this is the flaw I see in karma. Karma says if you ignored (knowingly) a person (hurting them) in the previous life you will be ignored in this one to experience and learn. If I in thought belittle and hurt another, I (in thought) will go through it to. What if the intention was not that, but felt it was but wasn't correct. That's the energy of it? Harm equals harm?

There are so many feelings one can have you could literally have many equal experiencing to grasp. If I wrong here then I am wronged, so on and so on. Let's say I picked on a person because I was bigger and more powerful then they, karma it will be returned.

But what of the person who wronged me in the next life. Karma says I had to be wronged as I wronged. Was that their role or were they just average souls that will go through the same karma. Did they have a choice?

You do not have to be wronged in turn. That person whom you wronged previously may have already forgiven you from a place of love. They may choose to treat you with love, regardless of how you've treated them previously or in this lifetime. That does not mean they stick around whilst you treat them badly ad infinitum. They can send you love from a distance if need be.

Regardless, if the two of you interact, you always get to choose how treat them. Likewise they always get to choose how they treat you. You are always responsible for your own choices and how you treat others, regardless of how they've treated you in the past or vice versa.

This is the real meaning of how karma is healed and ultimately transcended...which is to simply practice authentic love in being and doing in all things. In your intent, your thought, your word, and your deed. Simply meet each moment with authentic love in being and doing.

This is the much deeper truth of "turn the other cheek", though it is a truth that is at first difficult to reconcile with our mainstream, everyday way of thinking (which is 1st-chakra based and deals in terms of basic survival, home and tribal defense, and bodily protection).

If that other person does the same, they can greet you with lovingkingness, and you can do the same. And regardless of what befell you in past lives, you can bring that same lovingkindness to your current exchange, which will help to heal and fortify you both...and which may allow you to more fully heal and reconcile the karma between you in all realms.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

Karma appears to me to be presented as debt, which is why I don’t see it as being real. It appears to be designed to influence the way people live their lives in a way that would keep them in a psychological behavioural pattern based on trial (or punishment) & reward. So an illusionary debt is created.

Every incarnation to me is a fresh start, & the reason we have so many problems & experience great difficulties is because we live in a broken society. We are supposed to live within the circle of life where we belong.