Spirit Animals vs. Totems
 

There seems to be quite a bit of confussion about spirit animals acting as your guide.
Are spirit animals guides the same as totem animals? Not really. A totem animal was
usually the symbol for a group or clan within a tribe. People in the group proudly
displayed their totem animal for all to see. In many Native American tribes you were
born into your mother's clan. Marriage could get you into another clan.
In some tribes certain clans could not intermarry. This was a way to stop inbreeding
between close family members. Some groups adopted members, while other
groups only took in those who passed a test or initiation. Totem poles were placed outside
of a home or village to show what group or groups lived there.

Spirit animals are another thing. They are extremely personal and a source of secret
guidance and power. YOU NEVER TELL ANOTHER PERSON WHAT YOUR
SPIRIT ANIMAL IS!! There are several reasons for this. It is considered bragging
by some. If you go around telling people that Bear is your animal when the next battle
comes up, Bear will abandon you for disrespecting him and take his strength with him.
To be abandoned by your animal guide is tantamount to death.

Another reason goes along the same lines as keeping your name a secret. If a powerful
Shaman got ahold of your name, they could work magic against you or enslave you.
Knowing what your spirit animal is works almost the same way. A Shaman can have several
spirit helpers, and they could gang up on yours to cause trouble.

The bond between you and your SA is strong and should never be taken for granted.
Normally you went on a vision quest ALONE to find your SA. They wanted to be
alone with you, not part of a group. You did not come home and say who you found,
only that you did find someone. You could say some of what they told you, just not who
told you.

With all the New Age re-tooling of Native American beliefs going on, it is important
to weed out ideas that are so very misunderstood. It is dangerous
to not know what you are doing in an adopted religion. People
who are not Native American don't have the passed down knowledge and have
to get guidance from others, many of whom are equally ignorant. In fact, many
native peoples today don't know their heritage. How can they teach others when
they don't understand the subject themselves? I hope this clears things up and
helps others to think about the path they are on, and with whom they are walking.

good information to know.

but i do have a question. if a Shaman does a soul retrieval on you to repair damage, can't they see all of this? and if so, who do you trust?

Exactly.

Personally I would never openly reveal my spirit helpers as there exists those who would use such personal information to cause one harm or to steal an individual’s personal medicine.

Truly I am amazed at the amount of people freely revealing such, but what would an Indian upon a traditional spiritual path know of such anyway ?

Wolves, Eagles, Buffalo seem to be the most popular, but many of these spirit helpers appear as creatures as small as a frog, wren, moth or even a gnat. Not so large and popular as the above mentioned, but just as if not more so helpful and powerful than those others.

Sometimes they appear as something totally unrecognizable.

Nope. A Shaman is going after YOUR soul. He doesn't have to see who communes with it.
A better question would be why did your spirit animal allow this to happen. Did you do something to allow it to let this happen? They are usually very protective, sometimes to the point of jealousy. Now if your Shaman told you that a spirit animal was the one to cause "loss of soul", you have a real problem. Try to get the Shaman to interceed on your behalf, and see if all concerned can reach a comfortable balance.

Sometimes the smallest voices say the most important things!:hug:

Sometimes they say nothing at all, but can get a point across with only a movement or by just appearing.

Glad to see someone who has a bit of knowledge concerning such matters.

i was just asking in general about a shaman healing holes in you soul, i should have been more specific. tell me how a totem animal protects you when you are 9 to keep your father from repeatedly molesting you. did i do something to allow that to happen??

but i do know which animal totem that protects that part of me while she sleeps.

I know what you mean; one of my guides is adorably small but surprisingly deadly in its physical form.


But another question. What if your totem is blatantly obvious to those around you? In more sophisticated terms, what if you are connected so strongly with your totem that your friends and family recognize this, whether you tell them so or not?


I tend to have no problems revealing my totem because anyone who has known me knows what my totem is. It has been a co-existance since I was too little to really know what totems and spirit animals were. Obviously I wouldn't go up to complete strangers and say, "Hello! My totem is such and such!" But as I said people who know me tend to discover my totem quite easily.

It is the same with one of my more powerful guides. I recognize only one totem but many spirit guides. Everyone around me knows what this particular guide is, even those who don't believe in this kind of spirituality recognize a sort of relationship between myself and this animal.

You said your soul was MISSING. Boy, dems some mighty big holes and I can see why. First question - Did you have a spirit animal at the tender age of 9?
If you answered yes, did you talk to it? If the answer was yes, what did it recommend?

"With all the New Age re-tooling of Native American beliefs going on, it is important
to weed out ideas that are so very misunderstood. It is dangerous
to not know what you are doing in an adopted religion"

True.

Just like those people in Arizona who tragically died in someone’s contrived conception of a sweat lodge.

Then there is the uncertainty of the spirit world and calling in something harmful or else offending particular spirits.

Hm. Good post, RiversLady. I have been told what my totem animal is. And what my Cherokee name is, which I somehow feel more reluctuant about sharing than the name given to me by my spirit guide. The spirit who told me what my totem animal was, wrinkled his nose when I asked about my power animal as that concept was dubious according to him - but he indicated an animal even so. But I have no such thing as a spirit animal. I do however know someone who has an animal spirit guide. Are these two the same thing?

I have heard about this. One guy had a fox spirit attached to him. But it was a family revenant that protected the whole family and always stuck to the male heir. This wasn't Native American either. What made it really unusual was that sometimes the spirit fox was visible to others! And the gentleman in question had a foxy look to him when he smiled.

No, you don't have to have a spirit animal. I think everyone has some sort of guide though. My family always said guardian angel, as that concept fit with their religion. Some guardians can be ancestors of yours who for some reason have a stake in how you get on in this life. I know of friends and lovers from a past life watching over their loved one.
People who adopt the Native American religious system and who want to find a spirit animal are usually looking for the one they can most empathize with. Sometimes, they get one they weren't looking for. You can't decline if you ask for one.
Just curious and not asking what it is, but how did you get a Cherokee name?

"Sometimes, they get one they weren't looking for"

Sometimes they want a particular one so much for whatever reason they choose it instead of it choosing them.

As far as totems are concerned we must surely know there was a reason a tribe, clan or individual has such totems. Then we get into tribal or clan origins. All totems don't necessarily have to be animals.

I have not adopted the Native American / Indian American religious system; it feels wrong to do so as I have never been of that blood. But there are elements of it that resonate with me. For one instance, I have dealings with White Buffalo Woman.

The story of me receiving a Cherokee name is s strange one. Last year a close friend of mine with a part of her documented heritage being Cherokee, visited the nearest related reservation for reasons of her own. She enjoyed a meeting with the elders who seemed quite interested, and in passing also told them about me. They asked to see a picture of me, and then wanted to see an item I had touched. She showed them a blade I had given her not long before. At which point they said to her they looked at my essence and knew who I was. Someone who had helped the tribe in past lives. And for that reason they decided to gift me with a name, which I treasure. I hope one day to have the funds to visit them and honor the tribe to the best of my ability. As yet, I have not even been in the US. I have spoken with the chief once though when he called my friend while she was chatting with me on the computer.

Not to sidetrack, but of course you know the Cherokee were not so much a tribe, but rather a nation of Iroquoian tribes that broke off the main Iroquoian drift northwards and settled in the southern Appalachians. The Iroquoian Tuscarora and Nottoway who lived/live in Virginia and North Carolina were also part of this division and very much kin to their Cherokee neighbors.

Yes, I am aware of that much. I did read up on the Cherokee for a little while and learned of the multiple tribes, the Trail of Tears and the evolution of their writing language among many things. It is a strong story they have to tell and I am glad to know the tribes are doing better now than at any time since the arrival in force of Europeans.

A Trail of Tears brought about by a man extremely infected with evil spirits, Andrew Jackson. He not only exiled the Cherokee, but many other eastern tribes as well. The bad part of this history is that the Cherokee aided Jackson during the war of 1812 against factions of their former good neighbors, the Creek tribe at Horseshoe Bend only to be rewarded by Jackson some years later in his Indian removal policy.

Some Cherokee went into hiding up in the mountains and became the Eastern or Qualla Band.

Excellent. I had the impression that a "dream Indian" had given you the name. No, what you just said is legit. I shouldn't be surprised because I have a strong connection for anything Scottish. Something of me was there in a different time.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, but there are some banks that don't have many 20 dollar bills because some of the people refuse to carry anything with Andrew Jackson on it. When they go to cash their paychecks they will accept anything but a $20.

Ahhh yes, I've known Cherokee who will always place a twenty dollar bill face down on the counter to pay for something .

OK, since this thread has gotten off topic, let me bring it back with some humor.

My spirit animal can eat your spirit animal!

Sometimes I feel like the whole concept of spirituality has gotten to be like this. One big competition. It is not. We all leave the flesh sooner or later. Do we argue about this because we are sincerely concerned about other potential spirits or just to look superior in the flesh? Are you really concerned about others sharing in the same afterlife as you?

"My spirit animal can eat your spirit animal!"

Careful, your spirit animal may get a stomach ache:rolleyes:

"One big competition" One would suppose, where another could care less about such a competition being secure enough on his or her spiritual path. Then there are those who know not and are subject to be taken in by the words of those who misrepresent spirituality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisa'ka Not to sidetrack, but of course you know the Cherokee were not so much a tribe, but rather a nation of Iroquoian tribes that broke off the main Iroquoian drift northwards and settled in the southern Appalachians. The Iroquoian Tuscarora and Nottoway who lived/live in Virginia and North Carolina were also part of this division and very much kin to their Cherokee neighbors.

Yup. My Father was Tuscarora.

This is really interesting! I haven't been told that my totem has been seen in its spirit form; only that it certainly makes its presence known. I also know that it is my personal totem, and doesn't have the attachment to anyone else in my family as it does to me.


And such a great way to get back on track Rivers! But along this line I don't believe any particular spirit animal is more or less powerful than another (well, with the exception perhaps of a Dragon vs a Rabbit or something along the lines.)

Certainly some animals have weaknesses and strengths against others and this is reflected in the spirit realm, but would spirits really be so off-balanced?

Oh where are my manners, let me extend greetings and say I know some of your people, but it's been awhile since I've been on that part of your river.

Well greetings to you MorningMist, it has been a long time since the Tuscarora left what is now Carolina to join the 5 Nations thus making them 6.

first i never said my soul was missing, i asked about a Shaman doing a soul retrieval which is where they go in and help heal parts of your soul that have been damaged. tell me how i was to know i had a spirit animal at 9? i was a child and was not exposed to that environment.

second, you need to have a little more compassion and a lot more tact.

For the longest time I thought one of my spirit helpers/animals was Kingfisher, but he was only a friend who would share the bank with me by the river where we both fished. He would make a decent totem for an angler.

Not off balance, just being what they are. Just as there are fights herein this realm, so there can be fights and disagreements in theirs.
Look at some Japanese myths of spirit foxes. They are considered trouble, but one story told of a group of little foxes studying Tao with an older fox master. Were they trying to learn balance?
Personally, I've always wondered how one would handle it if their spirit animal was a skunk. It's small, but very few will tangle with it.

That would have been my question. Was he sharing his fishing magic with you or was he using yours? Who got more fish?

Why Kingfisher did of course as he was a complete natural always having a bird's eye view of his quarry.

Of course the few fish I did catch were bigger than his :smile:

May I respectfully ask about revealing our names? My 'Native' name was given to me by a Lakota sister in ceremony. The name was heard by friends and soon traveled the powwow trail with me..everyone calling me Snowdove. I am concerned about it not being a secret now. I am aware of powerful Shamans and the magic they have..and dont want to give them any power over me.
My Medicine name is secret though. Only the Elders that gifted it to me and myself know it. Is it the Medicine name you speak of, or did I make an error many years ago to keep allowing all to call me by my given name of Snowdove?

Really any name can be used to work harm on you. It is the name you keep to yourself that is the most powerful. "Medicine" name is an anglesized term that isn't used by actual Native Americans unless they are giving it to a "paying member" of a ritual. Then it will make the rounds to show where the easy marks with deep pockets are.

I agree. In the old days and even now most traditionalists will not give their real names or 'medicine names' to complete strangers and it was/is considered rude for anyone to ask for such. Then there are the less important 'nick names' that are easily given and sometimes adopted.

I have to wonder about those living today who will offer every shread of personal information including phone numbers, addresses, life histories and dates of birth on these big social networking sites.

Ya sniped me on that Wisa"ka:cwm21:

This might make naming easier to understand for ya. You can have several names. A family name is only used by
family members. Ex - my husband and I call our child by a pet name that we would get killed for if we called said
child that in public. As mates, the man and I call each other pet names in bed. Wouldn't say those in public either!
You can have a name that you use at gatherings and potlatches. You would have a tribal name given to you at birth (or
shortly after at a naming ceremony), which would be known to those your family lives with. Then there is your real name.
Only you would know what that is. You and the giver I should say. Your real name would also be known to some
in the spirit world. Your helping spirit or your spirit mate would use those.
Because that name is of the spirit world it is the one that a shaman could use to harm your spirit. This is also
the name that they would use to enslave your spirit when it passes out of your physical body. Are you familiar with
a shaman's spirit helpers that they can call upon for help with a difficult task? Most of those are not exactly
willing helpers. Most are of them are dead humans who let their name fall into the shamans hands. They don't
serve into eternity thank goodness. Most are freed when the shaman passes away. And you can be sure they are waiting
for that shaman to pass to they can "reward" them if they had to do things they didn't want to.
In very rare cases, a shaman can give a spirit name of his to another shaman. This should be done only in times
of the greatest need, and the spirit should be thanked with some kind of offering or by giving it
freedom after the crisis has passed.

You wouldn't give Facebook your real name and phone #? ROFL

"You wouldn't give Facebook your real name and phone #? ROFL"

LOL! No. Although being somewhat sociable, I'm not that foolish or needy.

I would like to know why the need to anglicize all these Indian names ? Our languages are beautiful as they are. Some of our words have no meaning in the English language.

What reason would a shaman have to cause trouble with anyone? Also, I never heard of not telling anyone else your spirit animal. They're protectors, why would they cause harm?

First of all most traditional Indians I know including me would not reveal such information even if it is the mainstay of any 'Native American' Spirituality forum. We use the names spiritual leader or medicine people instead of shaman.

So what Indian Tribe do you belong to ?

It depends on how strongly you believe in the spirit realm. Read the whole thread and you will get some idea of the problems you can encounter.

Now I ask you to do this small mental excersize. Think about this: What would happen if you lost your name? Someone stole it perhaps? Don't look at it as impossible, and don't apply it to the material world. How would you feel and what would you do? I await your reply!