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r6r6r 13-07-2018 06:05 PM

Observer vs Observed
 
Duality is everywhere around us. We are embedded in duality.

1} macro-infinite non-occupied space vs occupied space Universe/God

2} concave negative )( shape vs convex positive shape ( ),

3} left handed amino-acids{ building blocks of biological life } vs right handed amino-acids ergo homo-chirality protein builders,

4} Gravity{ attractive } vs Dark Energy{ repulsive },

5} front of body vs back of body,

6} bottom side vs top side,

7} foreground vs backgorund

8) inside vs outside structure-system,

9) vertical vs horizontal,

Moondance 14-07-2018 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r6r6r
Duality is everywhere around us. We are embedded in duality.

1} macro-infinite non-occupied space vs occupied space Universe/God

2} concave negative )( shape vs convex positive shape ( ),

3} left handed amino-acids{ building blocks of biological life } vs right handed amino-acids ergo homo-chirality protein builders,

4} Gravity{ attractive } vs Dark Energy{ repulsive },

5} front of body vs back of body,

6} bottom side vs top side,

7} foreground vs backgorund

8) inside vs outside structure-system,

9) vertical vs horizontal,


Hello r6r6r

I’m not sure what your point is here. To my knowledge no credible speaker on nonduality has ever suggested that ‘nondual perception’ entails the absence of the relative dualities of everyday experience; up and down, left and right, in and out, hot and cold and so on.

Nonduality means not-two-ality. Not-two means One without a second. In the realisation that reality is without a second it’s seen that whatever state/condition is arising - that is it. But this is unlikely to be grasped using the usual tools for grasping things - i.e. the (left hemispherical) analytical functioning of mind (with its orientation towards division and abstraction.)

Shivani Devi 14-07-2018 12:54 PM

When it is warm or cool, it is neither hot nor cold.
When an angle is at 45 degrees, it is neither vertical nor horizontal.
When something is in the middle, it is neither on the bottom nor on the top.

I could go on...

Duality only exists when two extremes exist...like 'black' and 'white' totally neglecting the infinite 'shades of grey' in between (and there are more than 50 of them). LOL

It is only false human logic which categorises things according to its polar opposite, when there exists a vast array of things 'in between' and the whole inclusion of the subset in relation to any point on the 'number line' between "0" and "1" is what non-duality is all about.

r6r6r 14-07-2018 02:42 PM

Duality Exists Is Minimal Brainer
 
Quote:

Moondance---Hello r6r6r I’m not sure what your point is here.


I repeat 'Duality is everywhere around us. We are embedded in duality.' And then I give examples. If you cannot grasp that point I'm not sure what can be stated to help you grasp relatively simple concepts.





Quote:

To my knowledge no credible speaker on nonduality has ever suggested that ‘nondual perception’ entails the absence of the relative dualities of everyday experience; up and down, left and right, in and out, hot and cold and so on.


Well good then were all in agreement. Reread my post, as stated. If you still dont grasp any points{ concepts } then I'm at lost of what words you need to help you grasp relatively simple concepts Ive presented.


You may need to use a dictionary. I dunno.

Quote:

Nonduality means not-two-ality. Not-two means One without a second. In the realisation that reality is without a second it’s seen that whatever state/condition is arising - that is it. But this is unlikely to be grasped using the usual tools for grasping things - i.e. the (left hemispherical) analytical functioning of mind (with its orientation towards division and abstraction.)


Now I'm the one who dosent know what your going on about here. First you seem to agree then you dont.


Ive stated nothing that is not true, nor misleading. Ive stated facts of Observed Reality. Nothing more nothing less

r6r6r 14-07-2018 03:07 PM

Duality Is Coexists With Threeness, Fourness etc
 
Quote:

Shivani Devi---When it is warm or cool, it is neither hot nor cold.


One{ this warm } can only be relative too that{ cool }. Its called relativity and we are embedded in relatively.





Quote:

When an angle is at 45 degrees, it is neither vertical nor horizontal.


45 is relative to all other degrees of existence. 90, 0, 180, 360 etc.


Angle is defined by two radii. Each radii has two ends.


We are embedded in duality. This rather simple minimal-brainer.





Quote:

When something is in the middle, it is neither on the bottom nor on the top.


It is relative to two others --bottom top--- at minimum.

Quote:

I could go on...


And they all are embedded in relativity ergo twoness ergo duality ergo this relative to that etc.


Quote:

Duality only exists when two extremes exist...like 'black' and 'white' totally neglecting the infinite 'shades of grey' in between (and there are more than 50 of them). LOL


Duality exists. End of story.


Finite, occupied space Universe exists with macro-infinite non-occupied space. Reread my orginal post and if you find anything that is not trur, or misleading please share.

Quote:

It is only false human logic which categorises things according to its polar opposite, when there exists a vast array of things 'in between' and the whole inclusion of the subset in relation to any point on the 'number line' between "0" and "1" is what non-duality is all about.


No it is not "false human logic" and why you should state so is what is illogical. Duality exists. End of story.


All in betweens ex 46 degrees is relative to all other degrees and that is many dualities. Those who deny the existence of duality are not using any rational, logical common sense.


Theyu are missing the boat of relativity. This is primarily what Einstein discovered. In 60's a common saying was, its all relative man.


If negative four{ -4 } can be considerd to be diametric{ ergo geometry involvement } of positive four{ 4 } then the exact halfway point is the non-counting number zero.


Halfway inherent involves duality{ twoness } and threeness{ -4, 0 and 4 }.


See my cosmic primary three-ness thread to better grasp threeness.


There exists 360 degrees not just one or two ergo there exist 180 diametric duality extremes.


Duality can be extremes but it can be any twoness. And all twoness is embedded with many other relatives.


And I repeat again, after manyh threads and years, the cosmic duality of finite, occupied space Universe, and macro-infinite non-occupied space, is the only duality twoness, that does not have a spatial threeness of consideration.


Ive made this very clear in many threads and many years. When any have any rational, logical common sense that is evidence that my conclusions are false or misleading, please share.


None have done so in all these years or threads in any forum.

Moondance 14-07-2018 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r6r6r
I repeat 'Duality is everywhere around us. We are embedded in duality.' And then I give examples. If you cannot grasp that point I'm not sure what can be stated to help you grasp relatively simple concepts.

Well good then were all in agreement. Reread my post, as stated. If you still dont grasp any points{ concepts } then I'm at lost of what words you need to help you grasp relatively simple concepts Ive presented.

You may need to use a dictionary. I dunno.

Now I'm the one who dosent know what your going on about here. First you seem to agree then you dont.

Ive stated nothing that is not true, nor misleading. Ive stated facts of Observed Reality. Nothing more nothing less


Oh, I grasp your concepts. It’s the point that is missing. Why post a list of relative dualities when no one is claiming that relative dualities are required to be absent for ‘nondual perception’ to be the case?

r6r6r 14-07-2018 04:51 PM

Complex Whole to Simple Special-Case Evoluting Processes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondance
Oh, I grasp your concepts. It’s the point that is missing. Why post a list of relative dualities when no one is claiming that relative dualities are required to be absent for ‘nondual perception’ to be the case?





The points are self-evident irrespective of whether you choose to acknowledge them.


We are embedded in relativity of all kinds of dualities. And all dualities have a third aspect to them as I presented in reply to Shiva.


Read and reread to you grasp and accept those for what they are, Truth and not misleading statements.


Please share if you have any evidence of my statements not being true or misleading.


Non-duality only exists in the metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts of the beholder. I.e. kinda of like the monkey with hands over eyes, ears and mouth.


Whats the point of monkey that ignores truth and the enviromental reality that surrounds every particle and every entity of Unierse?


That is the point. Head in hole in ground is good from keeping head out of sunlight of enlightment ergo the sun or information cannot tan or burn their head as long as it remains in hole in the ground.


360 degrees has at minimum 180 dualities of diametrica polar opposition and that share a common neutral axial point.


-4 > 0 < 4 ergo a threeness exist with every duality except in the most cosmic case of cosmic spatiality.


Macro-infinite non-occupied space >< Finite occupied space Universe.


At best we can say that the inbetween space is gravity and/or dark energy, but as soon as we state that we have entered occupied space zone.


I'm sorry but I try my best to follow rational, logical common sense pathways and express them as I sees them.


If other choose not to see, ignore or follow rational, logical common sense pathways, there is nothing I can do to alter their choices to be follow irrational, illogical and lack of common sense pathways.


There exist many points and they are all relative ergo relativity is the name of the game in our dynamic{ motion } Universe, wherein humans have most access to static metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.


Concepts have no color, no charge, not spin, ergo concepts are energyless and are not tainted as is occupied space.


Even macro-infinite non-occupied space is tainted by the dynamic{ changing } shape of our finite, occupied space Universe/Uni-V-erse.

Moondance 14-07-2018 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r6r6r
The points are self-evident irrespective of whether you choose to acknowledge them.

We are embedded in relativity of all kinds of dualities. And all dualities have a third aspect to them as I presented in reply to Shiva.

Read and reread to you grasp and accept those for what they are, Truth and not misleading statements.

Please share if you have any evidence of my statements not being true or misleading.

Non-duality only exists in the metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts of the beholder. I.e. kinda of like the monkey with hands over eyes, ears and mouth.

Whats the point of monkey that ignores truth and the enviromental reality that surrounds every particle and every entity of Unierse?

That is the point. Head in hole in ground is good from keeping head out of sunlight of enlightment ergo the sun or information cannot tan or burn their head as long as it remains in hole in the ground.

360 degrees has at minimum 180 dualities of diametrica polar opposition and that share a common neutral axial point.

-4 > 0 < 4 ergo a threeness exist with every duality except in the most cosmic case of cosmic spatiality.

Macro-infinite non-occupied space >< Finite occupied space Universe.

At best we can say that the inbetween space is gravity and/or dark energy, but as soon as we state that we have entered occupied space zone.

I'm sorry but I try my best to follow rational, logical common sense pathways and express them as I sees them.

If other choose not to see, ignore or follow rational, logical common sense pathways, there is nothing I can do to alter their choices to be follow irrational, illogical and lack of common sense pathways.

There exist many points and they are all relative ergo relativity is the name of the game in our dynamic{ motion } Universe, wherein humans have most access to static metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.

Concepts have no color, no charge, not spin, ergo concepts are energyless and are not tainted as is occupied space.

Even macro-infinite non-occupied space is tainted by the dynamic{ changing } shape of our finite, occupied space Universe/Uni-V-erse.


No, the point that you are making is not self-evident because as it turns out it is irrelevant (since no one is arguing about relative dualities.)

The rest of this shows me that you are simply ignorant of the real meaning and implication of nonduality and are looking in the wrong direction - which as I said before, is not found via the (left hemispherical) analytical functioning of mind (with its orientation towards division and abstraction.)

It’s as if someone is inviting you to hear a wonderful melody and you are insisting on a diagram.

FallingLeaves 15-07-2018 12:19 AM

well if you are going to use a sword to split things asunder so that you can see the differences between them, of course the world you are showing yourself is dualistic.

Gem 15-07-2018 03:24 AM

I reckon it can be defined using three aspects of 'the real', 'the symbolic' and 'the imaginary'. This is the framework which Lacan used, but to put it simply, the 'real' can be thought of as a pure potential which has no defining quality as such, but represents a fundamental ground that all else has to adhere to.


The 'symbolic' is more or less true, but completely arbitrary, so if we say one direction is up, then the opposite direction must be down; to say a thing is 'good' must be represented by that which is 'bad' and so on. So the symbolic is definitively true, but arbitrarily so.


The 'imaginary' is when we imagine that there is 'all good' without 'bad'. It is thus removed from the real, and thus defined as 'imaginary'. Like imagining all up without a down is inherently senseless.


It's more complex because these all overlap. For example we can arbitrarily say what is up, so to one on the south pole 'up' is the opposite direction than it is on the North pole. Hence, 'up' is imagined arbitrarily, but is true, or real, because of the opposed down. The symbolic is dualistic but it is not 'two different things'. It only represents the extremes of the same thing, and in that regard it is connected to the 'real'.


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