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-   -   The Winds of Doctrine (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129373)

Morpheus 07-05-2019 05:25 PM

The Winds of Doctrine
 
Some who participate here equate doctrine with "dogma", in the negative sense.
Just as they may assert that, "all religions are cults". This, involving simple-mindedness, and a reactive mindset.

However, in fact, there is the reality of sound doctrine as a necessity to the Christian faith, as well as there are existing various peculiar beliefs which St. Paul addresses as,
"wind of doctrine".

One example, in modern times, might be "snake handling" Christian believers.
There is also the denomination that believes that all believers must speak in tongues.

And, there are the "cults", both Christian and non Christian.
One seen as a Christian cult emphasizes worshipping on a certain calendar day as essential to salvation, but because they hold to the essential tenets of the faith, they are not considered to be non Christian.

Through history there have been short lived "fads", also.

In Ephesians 4:14 Paul writes about, however, not being tossed about by every wind of doctrine in an immature mindset.

So, the issue then is about the essential tenets of the Christian faith. Which do equate with "dogma", and not in a negative sense. But, important, and positive.
This is something which should be considered by the believer.

What are the tenets that are essential in Christianity? Which identify a belief, or an organization, as genuinely Christian, or as errant and awry?
"Amiss"?

davidmartin 07-05-2019 10:09 PM

this is too easy Morpheus Jesus answered this directly 'love each other that is how the world will know you are my disciples'
i don't think the beliefs matter as much as the interpretation of them
Paul found various beliefs, and his was one of the varieties all going back to a central character. But its the fruits in the end i think matter most
I've seen some wacky stuff that may conform to biblical christian beliefs but it was unchristian in spirit so nothing much suprises me any more
I believe in the 'box of fireworks' theory. Jesus was like a box of fireworks that gets lit and rockets shoot off in all directions with different beliefs in each one. i'm ok with that

Morpheus 07-05-2019 11:05 PM

Interesting analogy Dave. A box of fireworks!

Well, of course it's important, regarding your statements on the fruits of faith, you know Buddhists may take exception.
Or, adherents to other beliefs.

I don't think it is the fruits of Christianity which equate to it's dogma, or the essential tenets of the faith. Which is what I was asking about.
How would one identify the genuine article from errancy, or heresy?

davidmartin 08-05-2019 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus
Interesting analogy Dave. A box of fireworks!

Well, of course it's important, regarding your statements on the fruits of faith, you know Buddhists may take exception.
Or, adherents to other beliefs.

I don't think it is the fruits of Christianity which equate to it's dogma, or the essential tenets of the faith. Which is what I was asking about.
How would one identify the genuine article from errancy, or heresy?


I see what you mean, i'm just not sure its possible to clearly do that, because i think it is at the spiritual level. I think that's where things really happen and it's the spirit that counts
Like how the false toronto blessing spirit appears in some churches which I have seen personally. That to me is total heresy yet the church was pretty much biblically sound in doctrine on paper
that experience is why i think the way i do
there is a set of traditional beliefs that i agree are normally essential tenants its just i dont know if they are really able to tell the full story without looking at the fruits as well... but if we had perfect spiritual sight it would be pretty easy thing to do!

Morpheus 08-05-2019 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmartin
I see what you mean, i'm just not sure its possible to clearly do that, because i think it is at the spiritual level. I think that's where things really happen and it's the spirit that counts
Like how the false toronto blessing spirit appears in some churches which I have seen personally. That to me is total heresy yet the church was pretty much biblically sound in doctrine on paper
that experience is why i think the way i do
there is a set of traditional beliefs that i agree are normally essential tenants its just i dont know if they are really able to tell the full story without looking at the fruits as well... but if we had perfect spiritual sight it would be pretty easy thing to do!


So, again, the question remains...
What essential tenets distinguish genuine Christianity, and authentic, from that which is considered heretic, and fraudulent?

There has to be that dogma, and the essential tenets, which are distinguishing between correct, and non.
Right and wrong. No?

Here is another example. One denomination feels that they are exclusively, "The Church of Christ", literally. Apart from other, "denominations".
In other words, they don't consider themselves just another denomination of Christianity.
They also refuse to use musical instruments in their services, because the Bible doesn't indicate that instruments were used in early Christian services.

Yet, they are not heretic, or non Christian in their doctrine because they do hold to, and espouse, the essential tenets of the Christian faith.

sky123 08-05-2019 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus
Some who participate here equate doctrine with "dogma", in the negative sense.
Just as they may assert that, "all religions are cults". This, involving simple-mindedness, and a reactive mindset.

However, in fact, there is the reality of sound doctrine as a necessity to the Christian faith, as well as there are existing various peculiar beliefs which St. Paul addresses as,
"wind of doctrine".

One example, in modern times, might be "snake handling" Christian believers.
There is also the denomination that believes that all believers must speak in tongues.

And, there are the "cults", both Christian and non Christian.
One seen as a Christian cult emphasizes worshipping on a certain calendar day as essential to salvation, but because they hold to the essential tenets of the faith, they are not considered to be non Christian.

Through history there have been short lived "fads", also.

In Ephesians 4:14 Paul writes about, however, not being tossed about by every wind of doctrine in an immature mindset.

So, the issue then is about the essential tenets of the Christian faith. Which do equate with "dogma", and not in a negative sense. But, important, and positive.
This is something which should be considered by the believer.

What are the tenets that are essential in Christianity? Which identify a belief, or an organization, as genuinely Christian, or as errant and awry?
"Amiss"?




DOGMA.
A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.


What do you think are the benefits of dogma Morph ?

sky123 08-05-2019 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus
So, again, the question remains...
What essential tenets distinguish genuine Christianity, and authentic, from that which is considered heretic, and fraudulent?

There has to be that dogma, and the essential tenets, which are distinguishing between correct, and non.
Right and wrong. No?

Here is another example. One denomination feels that they are exclusively, "The Church of Christ", literally. Apart from other, "denominations".
In other words, they don't consider themselves just another denomination of Christianity.
They also refuse to use musical instruments in their services, because the Bible doesn't indicate that instruments were used in early Christian services.

Yet, they are not heretic, or non Christian in their doctrine because they do hold to, and espouse, the essential tenets of the Christian faith.






'What essential tenets distinguish genuine Christianity, and authentic, from that which is considered heretic, and fraudulent? '

It would depend on who's doing the judgement I suppose.

Morpheus 09-05-2019 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
It would depend on who's doing the judgement I suppose.


Wrong.

So lets discuss the two essential tenets that distinguish an organization as correct, and actually Christian.
One is the deity of Jesus Christ, as He Himself claimed more than once in the Gospels, regarding equality with the Almighty.
The other, is salvation by grace through faith.

"Not of works", say's St. Paul, "so that none may boast".

This is Christianity.

sky123 09-05-2019 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus
Wrong.

So lets discuss the two essential tenets that distinguish an organization as correct, and actually Christian.
One is the deity of Jesus Christ, as He Himself claimed more than once in the Gospels, regarding equality with the Almighty.
The other, is salvation by grace through faith.

"Not of works", say's St. Paul, "so that none may boast".

This is Christianity.



No Morph that is not Christianity, that is others dictating what Christianity is. The judges writing the rules.... Dogma.

Morpheus 09-05-2019 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
No Morph that is not Christianity, that is others dictating what Christianity is. The judges writing the rules.... Dogma.


Sky, this is reality. This is what distinguishes Christianity from errancy, mimicry, and fraud.


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