Questions to Buddhists
 

I like many ideas in Buddhism, but I do not follow any religion in full, because I do not agree with different things - depending on the religion there are more or less of those. In Buddhism, there is one thing that have always put me off. The ego death. Since I'm already on this forum, I thought to myself, why not ask other people about this? Because it may be that I have simply misunderstood the concept of it.

I'm going to make a list of my objections here, as all of these touch different subjects:
1. What differs you from atheists when it comes to the matter of death? It seems to me that both you and atheists believe that death/nirvana is final, resulting in lack of thoughts, emotions, attachments. Everything basically.
2. What's the difference between nirvana/ego death and nothingness/ceasing to exist?
3. Is it true that when someone is closer to the nirvana/ego death they distance themselves from their loved ones and friends?
4. If ego is undesirable, why are we even born with it? I mean - I never heard of Buddhist equivalent of Satan or other creator of evil.

So these are my questions. Thank you if you take your time answering!

I think we can safely say that we all suffer. What is the condition of suffering? How does it relate to self? What is the role of attachment?

I wouldn't worry too much about the definition of liberation as much as defining your own condition and finding a way (Buddhist or not) to bring about some transformation and peace of mind.

Buddhists may not believe in a god but that doesn't stop them being very focused on releasing oneself from suffering and endless rebirth.

Adam not all Buddhist are atheists.

I can state some of my opinions based on my experience as a part time Zen Buddhist. I'm sure many Buddhists may disagree with my opinions.

In your question, you didn't name everything. You named a lack of thoughts, emotions, and attachments. You didn't name yourself. None of those things are you. They are things you experience and associate with yourself. During the day, you often have periods when you are not thinking, periods when your emotions are silent, periods when you don't feel attached to things. So you have already experienced no thoughts, no emotions, and no attachments and consciousness was still there.

Consciousness free of concepts and thoughts, consciousness that is non-verbal, can be described as "nothingness." The ego looking at this concept would view it as undesirable and a horrible thing. That's because one aspect of the ego is the false belief it is the self. You tell somebody to stop thinking and they say, I don't want to be a vegetable!

Say you are skiing down a beautiful mountain and you are absorbed in the experience. The sounds, smells, and sensations of nature all around you. While you are in this state you are not thinking at all. When you reach the bottom of the mountain thought states, "Wow I enjoyed that! I want to do it again!" Thought did not ski down the mountain. Thought was not active at all during the experience. The ego or "I" with all of it's impulses was silent and not operating.

Imagine you sat down at the beach at sunset and played an imagination game. You wanted to see what nirvana was like. So you tried to let go of "yourself." Tried to see what sitting there would be like if you were not you. So you let go of your opinions and beliefs and all of that. Let go of your past and future. Discarded all of your hurts and pleasures, wants and desires. Imagined yourself to be some other person who also sat there and tried to do the same thing 4000 years ago. Tried to see the sunset through their eyes. This is a difficult exercise but if one were successful at it, they would have a profound experience of what is.

That "nothingness" is not nothing at all. It is a profound experience of all that is. The mystery and beauty that surrounds us. The thing that prevents this profound experience is us. Our self centered conceptual being through which we filter and experience the world.

Somebody who has realized this state is no longer living in the conceptual world. They are no longer living in the verbal symbolic world. If you asked them to describe conceptually what they were experiencing what could they say? Nothing. There is no concept that can describe the non-conceptual.

Why are we born with an ego? Well we are born with a human brain based mind and also with consciousness. The ego develops over time as we live and experience. Jesus said something about becoming like children to experience the kingdom of heaven. I think maybe he was describing that state before ego was fully formed when we just were being. The reason is we are conscious energy that is evolving to realize it's full potential. A human life is a tool to help conscious energy evolve and become more aware.

We are on a path up a mountain and one does not reach the top all at once. It is a long journey over thousands of incarnations.

dbl post...

That is what an atheists believes not a buddhist. Now there are many different traditions within buddhism so what I say may not fit all. I am more on the tantra side of buddhism.

Buddhist believe that after death you enter the Bardo before being reborn.

To enter Nirvana is cessastion. One has reached a portion of enlightenment. For some that may be oneness and they choose cessation which is the same goal as most of Yoga. That is what an Arhat desires. There are other paths like being an Immortal or a Bodhisattva or the ultimate being a Buddha.


Yes, one leads to rebirth or reicarnation which ever.. I know some get picky on that.. The other is what I mentioned above. Cessation is more like becoming one with all things, like going back to the source.

Nirvana/ego are very different things as is nothingness and ceasing to exist.

1: normal death and rebirth
2: cessation residing/ being one and returning to the light of all that is. Arhat
3: Immortal beings like in Taoism
4: Bodhisattva - Immortal beings that stay around to help others. Can choose rebirth. Some are at the level of a Buddha but work within the current system to help beings.
5: Buddha- Immortal being that is the creator of worlds that allows for beings to progress along the spirtual path.


No, not at all. Love is love, what goes away is the desire to change them or the want or needing "things" from them.


Some say life is a video game, others a movie. The point being it is the goal in all of this is to get past the ego to realize our true self. One with all things. It is a journey that takes eons to achieve. As one continues on the spirtual path this becomes more and more obvious.

No there is no Satan. No evil being who is responsible for making people do drugs and steal for more or anything like that. It is all within ourselves. It is all our thoughts and desires and our attachments to them that cause evil or bad things to happen.

Edit: A lot of people confuse the emptiness. nothingness within buddhism to think it means something it doesn't.

Emptiness is the nature of all things. All things are like clouds. They have form but there is nothing there. When you get to a point that you can reside with all things you will notice that it is all just energy, all connected. With any wave of energy it seems to have form but it is really empty. The same for all things. String theory in modern science is good at this. A very good movie on all of this is Inner Worlds Outer Worlds and you can view it free on You Tube.

The Buddhist teaching on this is the Heart Sutra.

The Buddhist teaching on what a Buddha is would be the Lotus Sutra.

Hope this helps,

Tom

info
 

I too have some beliefs. Here's a couple of links that mention facts and differences:

http://www.buddhist-temples.com/buddhism-facts/

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/facts

Adam are you still following/checking this thread? If so I will take the time to respond to your inquiry. Let me know...

1. What differs you from atheists when it comes to the matter of death? It seems to me that both you and atheists believe that death/nirvana is final, resulting in lack of thoughts, emotions, attachments. Everything basically.
2. What's the difference between nirvana/ego death and nothingness/ceasing to exist?
3. Is it true that when someone is closer to the nirvana/ego death they distance themselves from their loved ones and friends?
4. If ego is undesirable, why are we even born with it? I mean - I never heard of Buddhist equivalent of Satan or other creator of evil.

this is from a spiritual view. i am not a Buddhist.

1. there is no final. there is more, there is always more.

2. when you exit the ego. it is not nothingness. it is entering everything. being one with the all.

3. no we love to have fun and be with others.

4. ego is just another brick i the wall. being a strong brick is important in building a strong wall. ego is not the enemy.

kk

Yes, I read every message in this topic. I just have very little spare time currently and don't want to rush with the answer... But I will write more in this topic in the following days.