Disputed Ending of Mark 16
 

A poster on another board, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, it has generally been my experience that first day proponents many times use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change of observance from the seventh day to the first day, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, frequently quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?

Mark isn't the only one who says the resurrection was on the first day of the week.
This section does say that one of the signs that will follow believers is that they will pick up deadly snakes and not be hurt. Some people use this statement to teach that handling poisonous snakes should be part of Christian worship services. Here is a post that discusses that subject.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=412022&postcount=21

theophilus,

re: “Mark isn't the only one who says the resurrection was on the first day of the week...(Luke 24:1-3 ESV)”


I’m afraid that I don’t see where those verses say that the resurrection occurred on the first day of the week. They only say that the women came to the tomb on the first day and found the tomb empty.

**Anyone?**

Sure.

Your a Seventh Day Adventist?

We should discuss the relevance of observing a calendar day?

Theo:

It is also written, "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test."

The resurrection may have been on the first day of the week, but nowhere does it say that the first day is the Sabbath, so the Sabbath is still and always was the seventh day, Saturday.

Morpheus,

re: “Sure.”

OK, I shall await your information about an author.



re: “Your a Seventh Day Adventist?”

No.



re: “We should discuss the relevance of observing a calendar day?”

Not for the purpose of this topic.

psychoslice,

re: “The resurrection may have been on the first day of the week, but nowhere does it say that the first day is the Sabbath, so the Sabbath is still and always was the seventh day, Saturday.”


I’m afraid I don’t see the relevance of that comment to the OP.

Well I said it away lol.:D

psychoslice,

re: “Well I said it away...”

I don’t know what that means.

Your too serious, you can't see a joke lol, and you did say something about the Sabbath, when you replied to theophilus, so there.:cool:

Only Luke makes mention that he rose after three days... They both say that it was not discovered until the first of the week, or the day after Sabbath. Only Luke actually says how long before he rose.

Yes its funny how Christians changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week, Sunday.

It was probably changed to have more days to work before they went to the temples? But that is derailing the topic at hand.

Yes it maybe, but at the same time, it does have a similarity, the book of mark was tamped with, as also the Sabbath, it happened right though many years, every single council since the first council of Nicea, they added and deleted many works from the original book of books, the first name for the bible.

We have never changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Saturday is the Sabbath and always will be.

You don't know your history very well, the roman church said that they had the orthiroty from god to change the sabbath to Sunday worship.

So what's your opinion on the Sabbath TeeHee ?.

TeeHee,

re: “All four gospel accounts reveal how Jesus rose (and His tomb was found empty) “on the first day of the week” (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; cf. 20:19).”


None of those verses - with the exception of Mark 16:9 - say that the resurrection took place on the first day of the week. Do you have any information about an author as requested in the OP?

psychoslice,

re: “...you did say something about the Sabbath, when you replied to theophilus, so there.”


That is incorrect. I did not mention the Sabbath in that reply.

Nothing to panic about, i'm just not use to seeing the little, re; written in front of the others statement that's all, maybe I should start a thread on the Sabbath, seeing that most Christians don't understand it.

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

Interesting Stuff
 

I'm a Christian myself and I think that this passage has been a topic of a lot of talk. We also have to take into account some other things here as well.

* The Gregorian Calendar (also known as the Western Calendar or the Christian Calendar) was introduced on 24 Feb 1582 by Pop Gregory XIII and is the internationally accepted calendar
* The days of the week was introduced by Constantine the Great back in 321 AD; prior to that, the calendar was counted (like 1, 2, 3, etc.) instead of having the names of the week that we typically have today (which names can from the pagan world)

The sabbath was used in the scriptures, but it could have fallen on any day of the week, not necessarily on Sunday. The Sabbath could have fallen on a Wednesday or Friday or any other day of the week on today's calendar.

Just another point to consider.

Here are some links that you can look at if you're interested in reading what I googled.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_...et_their_names
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

As for any other sources that you may be looking for or thinking of, I'm not too sure; but that doesn't mean that there isn't anything to the fact that has been stated or cited.

Lachoneus,

re: “The sabbath was used in the scriptures, but it could have fallen on any day of the week...”

Actually, it couldn’t. The fourth commandment (third if you’re RC) specifically states that it is the seventh day of the week.

Assuming that the Messiah knew which day of the week the Sabbath was, we can know what day it is today. Although the calendar in use, a Roman calendar, has been changed, that change did not break the weekly cycle. Prior to the change, it was called the Julian calendar because it originated at the time of Julius Caesar, 45 B.C. - several decades before the birth of the Messiah. The one change was ordered by Pope Gregory, and since then it has been called the Gregorian calendar. <p> However, as mentioned above, the change did not alter the weekly cycle. The “Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 9, p. 251, under the article “Lilius,” says, regarding this change, that “….every imaginable proposition was made, only one idea was never mentioned, viz, the abandonment of the seven-day week.” Vol. 3, p. 740, under the article “Chronology,” the same reference, says that “It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted.” <p> So it would seem that the weekly cycle of the calendar that has been in effect since 45 B.C. has never had any alteration from the time of the Messiah until now. The Saturday of today is the same seventh day of the week as it was in the Messiah’s time. One could, therefore, be pretty sure that they would be keeping the same Sabbath day that the Messiah kept, setting an example - the same day He said He was Lord of.

If you have documentation that shows an interruption in the weekly cycle since the first century, I would really like to see it.

Is the argument that as a true Christian one ought to go to church on a Saturday instead of a Sunday?

Prinie,

re: “Is the argument that as a true Christian one ought to go to church on a Saturday instead of a Sunday?”



Not for the purpose of this topic. I am only concerned with what I requested in the OP.

I agree in what you said about this commandment. Laboring for 6 days and having the Sabbath on the 7th day. When Moses received the commandments, they didn't have names for the days of the week like we have today. If so, it would have stated in the commandments to hold the Sabbath on Saturday or on Sunday. But it just said to do our labors for 6 days and rest as well as having the Sabbath on the 7th day. It could have been at the time of Christ that the Sabbath fell on a Saturday or on a Sunday depending on which faith one belongs to and in what you may believe as to what day the Sabbath is.

There is nothing that I'm aware of the proves or disproves (whether from the bible or any other literary work) that the Sabbath is on Saturday or on Sunday, just that the Sabbath is on the 7th day and I'm not aware either of any instances (or documentation) where this pattern was interrupted as well. All I am trying to say is that the Sabbath could have fallen on any day of the week, as long as one worked for 6 days and had the Sabbath on the 7th day.

Every day is a holy day in the lives of those who are spirit born.



Cano

Very true Cano, I was in the Seventh day Adventist, they worshiped Saturday, the true seventh day, but they were obsessed with it, not good.

I don't think Jesus was very concerned about 1st and last days of the week. What is time to the timeless?

Yes, he may have observed the Sabbath day because that was their tradition, but he certainly didn't make anything of the first day, Sunday, that day was made by the Roman church many years later.

I believe was also quoted as saying that the Sabbath was created for mankind, and not man for the Sabbath. Like if someone was hurt on the Sabbath, you would help them. Jesus was a shepherd of men, and a fisherman of souls. He broke a lot of rules.

Yes, that's the Jesus that I like, but then if you read the old testament, you were stoned to death from not keeping the Sabbath, the Jews are still obsessed with the Sabbath till this day, some even have their toilet paper ready, so they wont have to pull it of the roll, its folded there for them.:D

We apparently like the same Jesus. :smile:

Ask someone from Judaism why they don't enforce all the Levitical laws anymore. The answer is, they naturally gravitated away from those more barbaric laws of ancient times because they were man made whereas the commands of God, the ways of God don't change.


Cano

the wise Philosopher Porphyry
 

The wise philosopher Porphyry made an extremely humorous and inspired remark regarding the final verses of Mark, now known to be forged, he said;

“In another passage Jesus says: These signs shall witness to those who believe: they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. And if they drink any deadly drug, it will hurt them in no way." Well then: the proper thing to do would be to use this process as a test for those aspiring to be priests, bishops or church officers. A deadly drug should be put in front of them and [only] those who survive drinking it should be elevated in the ranks [of the church].
If there are those who refuse to submit to such a test, they may as well admit that they do not believe in the things that Jesus said. For if it is a doctrine of [Christian] faith that men can survive being poisoned or heal the sick at will, then the believer who does not do such things either does not believe them, or else believes them so feebly that he may as well not believe them.”

Also, a few years ago I was having dinner with my wife’s parents and some of their Christian friends, when one of them began praying over his meal, asking the Lord to cleanse it of any poisons. The first thing that struck me as both strange and a little unsettling was the question of who, among his close Christian friends would try to poison his meal? Did he know something about these people that I didn’t? I also found it humorous that he failed to pray for all of our meals, instead preferring to use this powerful magic to protect only himself! What if my meal had been the only one that was poisoned and this “divine prophet” neglected to pray for my poisoned food?! During the meal I asked him if he believed that by praying he could cleanse his meal of any poison. To which he confidently responded; “I don’t believe, I know!” At that point I felt tempted to put his little theory to the test, but my lack of faith prevented me from doing so and more than likely spared his life!

Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

**Anyone?**

Perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

Well if you mean the author of your posts, it is probably you yourself, although I have no idea what you are carrying on about at all.