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- - Pluto (https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=126178)

now that the scientists have seen fit to demote pluto how does that affect astrology?

my ruling planet is pluto. being a scorpio. and i resent the audacity of these overrated humanoids taking it upon themselves to do such a thing.

well hissyfit (love the name lol) the traditional ruler of Scorpio is and has been Mars for much longer, but I'll get back to that. I am a Libra Sun but have 4 planets including Moon & Venus (and Pluto) in Scorpio along with my South Node so I kind of count on the sign a lot too.. and my baby daughter is a Scorpio as is my sister born on the same day as her. Anywayyy, I'm just saying that the Pluto rulership seems to make sense. and the thing is, you are right, those humanoids are silly, and don't worry, what they say or do has no bearing on the true reality. in actuality their attempt is laughable and I'm sure that Pluto could care less that they tried to demote it. I mean, seriously, Pluto is the premiere rebellious unpredictable dg@f planet, so isn't it just fitting that they'd try to say it's not a planet anymore? it doesn't matter what they think they think.

Now, there is something to be said about the traditional rulerships too though. I didn't put a lot of thought into them before, but someone I trust rather well stated their importance and validity so I realize there is more to look at with the old rulers known for eons before the modern planets were discovered. Of course Pluto existed for eons longer, but still, traditional Astrology has value and it's worth considering.

I suppose that Mars ruling Scorpio is one of the reasons Scorpio is known as the Phoenix sign, in addition to the Scorpion, Eagle, and Dove.. or even Dragon I think in some circles. It is the sign of transformation (ah so what if the demotion is an act of transformation? but again those scientists don't control the destiny of Pluto or us) and fire is rather transformative. thinking about Scorpio being a water sign calls into question the process of transformation and rebirth, death, etc.. because Mars is known as fiery in Astrological lore, ruling Mars first and foremost. and Scorpio is a water sign, so there's constant turmoil of fire and water and fire and water and no wonder transformation is such a big theme, but it can take a while.. anyway we're not here to talk about the potential depths of despair involved with Scorpio. just that I've heard it best said that Mars is an external fire for Aries, and an internal fire for Scorpio. so it is that infernal phoenix combusting and rising from its ashes. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, I just wanted to bring up how Mars being a ruler of Scorpio made sense to me, but really I didn't put a lot of research or a ton of thought into it.. perhaps I will think about it more now, but in any event hopefully I've helped you see how you're right about Pluto and none of us have to care what oblivious mainstream scientists say

I'm a Scorpio too! Honestly, I still count Pluto as a planet, even if scientists demoted it. Science changes all the time. What's true today may not be true tomorrow. I find it hard to believe that I am all Mars--too much fire and not enough depth.

Pluto is now aligned with Jupiter in the 6th (Virgo) house, but what occupies this house is Capricorn instead. So, Jupiter intensifies the meaning of destructive change that is going on in the health and cleanliness house. In meantime, Mars goes to Pisces, and Saturn (luckily?) leaves Capricorn for Aquarius. Finally, Chiron aligns Lilith in the 8th house (subtle Scorpios'), but what is in the 8th house is Aries. The beginning of learning on how to deal with such intense issues as abandonment and devaluation in the middle of such health devastation. I do not know about others, but this is felt like a heavy heavy time... Have anyone ever felt like time is not running, or has stopped, or declined to exist - if ever did?

Pluto is a dwarf planet, along with Ceres in the asteroid belt, Eris, Haumea, and Makemake. It doesn't diminish its importance to me, however I see there are two ways to consider this in astrology, perhaps at the same time. Scorpio is primarily ruled by Mars, not Pluto. And that Pluto is Scorpio's modern ruler. That doesn't diminish its co-rulership, but especially considering Pluto is a dwarf planet, we should remember in fact Scorpio is primarily ruled by Mars. In the same way we can say Virgo is primarily ruled by Mercury, and co-ruled by Ceres. Likewise Libra is primarily ruled by Venus, and co-ruled by Eris. Haumea and Makemake are still too new to have any designated rulers. I also personally have a issue with astrologers considering these three dwarf planets, Ceres, Pluto, and Eris, but completely ignoring Haumea and Makemake. Why is Pluto so important but its fellow two dwarf planets are not? This needs to change in my opinion. They should equally be as important.

Now the other thing to consider is that Pluto, being so far out, is in fact a generational planet, and doesn't make sense to say you are ruled by a planet that takes longer to orbit than you have years in your life. That's why Scorpio's primarily ruling planet is Mars - it's a personal planet, it's who you actually are inside, your ego. Furthermore most modern followers of astrology don't have the proper understanding and foundation of the logic behind how the ancients constructed their astrology regarding ruling planets, because co-rulers actually make no sense and there's no room for them. That said, since we are in the modern age with dwarf planets, we can bend the rules, well, with co-rulers.

LadyMay, it was not my intention starting a discussion on what I have no deep knowledge, rather, I just took a picture of the moment, as this picture no longer exist as in the moment it was taken. As you have said, if the rules can be bend -- in the light of new knowledge --, I guess many if not all rules have been broken.

Hi Lyzth I was replying to the OP, I didn't read the successive replies though now I just realised the OP was written 2018, so that's my bad! I'll read yours now though and see if I have any insights.

Well first off I see an error you made with your positing Capricorn being in the sixth house, purely because with the first house being defined always by the ascendant, the houses change every two hours as the ascendant itself changes every two hours. So as I write this, Capricorn is in the second house, and it is Jupiter and Pluto that are currently transiting through Capricorn. In another two hours, Capricorn will be in the first house, and yet after another two hours it will be in the twelfth house, and so on and so on. It travels backwards through the zodiac in a 24 hour day. Two hours for each of the twelve signs.

So house has no importance here looking at the current climate. Onto Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Jupiter and Saturn are now both retrograde which will have Saturn going back into Capricorn very soon. Over the next year Saturn will keep changing between direct and reverse between the two signs, which I know well as my Saturn return is retrograde in Aquarius. Meanwhile Jupiter and Saturn are still considered in their great conjunction alongside Pluto, which is also currently retrograde, and I imagine these three will be in conjunction for a great while longer. This particular triple conjunction of these three planets happens only every 600 years, so what we are currently going through is an extreme generational shift. When was 600 years ago? the 15th century which was beginning of the renaissance and the beginning of the modern era. Therefore with this triple conjunction that will be transiting into Aquarius, it's possible we could actually be seeing the beginning of the age of Aquarius. But that's just a conjecture. Before all great change there is always a period of upheaval or as you put it 'heavy heavy time', before the Renaissance that was characterised by the late middle ages - we all know how the dark the middle ages were lol!

So that is by far the greatest influence and I wouldn't even bring Mars into it, I imagine it was included though as the original thread focus was on Scorpio's ruling planet, which was traditionally and is primarily Mars as I already noted. Chiron and Lilith neither for the sake of this discussion with regards to what I assume is coronavirus and its affects on global lifestyle. Besides that, I'm now tired having written all this :D

Well first off I see an error you made with your positing Capricorn being in the sixth house, purely because with the first house being defined always by the ascendant, the houses change every two hours as the ascendant itself changes every two hours. So as I write this, Capricorn is in the second house, and it is Jupiter and Pluto that are currently transiting through Capricorn. In another two hours, Capricorn will be in the first house, and yet after another two hours it will be in the twelfth house, and so on and so on. It travels backwards through the zodiac in a 24 hour day. Two hours for each of the twelve signs.

Dear LM, 1st point is that the time I took the picture Cap was at 6th house, it was 13 pm Washington DC - so it was just a picture. Yes, houses changes quickly, as you said.
I think is useless and pointless keep on discussing it.
I regret my early post. I wish I could remove it, as it just makes sense to me.
I was talking with the walls.
Apologies.