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-   -   WHY IS IT SO HARD TO DEFINE SPIRITUALITY? (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=131284)

weareunity 20-09-2019 05:32 PM

Hello all.
As a suggestion.

An awareness of being an interconnected part of all which is--and was and will be--initially, and then doing your best to live in harmony with that awareness. This removes separation, making the everyday spiritual and vice versa.

In a way this also removes any need for definition.

petex

Legrand 20-09-2019 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
Why is it difficult to define Spirituality?
You would think there would be much commonality between belief systems
but it appears there is is a lot of polarization. How can this be?


On the top of a mountain there is only one summit for all to meet. But discussing from the base of the mountain on how to climb to the top there are infinite of possible paths to follow.

Same goes coming down the mountain, different paths will lead one to different places at the bottom of the mountain.

Very few have a full view of the mountain at the same time...

BigJohn 20-09-2019 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legrand
On the top of a mountain there is only one summit for all to meet. But discussing from the base of the mountain on how to climb to the top there are infinite of possible paths to follow.

Same goes coming down the mountain, different paths will lead one to different places at the bottom of the mountain.

Very few have a full view of the mountain at the same time...

PROFOUND!

As you approach a mountain, what you think is the top of the mountain, generally is not. Generally it is hard to see the top of the mountain till you are almost there.

I live in an area surrounded by at least one mountain range in each direction. One day I found a spot were each mountain range appeared to be of the same height.

Greenslade 21-09-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus
Right. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

This is where it all starts to unravel, because most people don't take the time to understand the story they're telling themselves. We are not Spiritual beings, the phrase subconsciously suggests that we are subordinate to Spirituality because it comes first. Yes I know it's grammatically correct. Spirituality is a belief system and we are not our beliefs, nor are we who or what we believe ourselves to be. Spiritually it begins with "I Am" and anything after that is invented - as is "I am Spiritual." We are beings, an aspect of whose reality is the belief system that is Spirituality.

Spirituality doesn't define us, we define Spirituality and that's why it's so difficult to define Spirituality - we are looking for what defines ourselves. As humans we don't enjoy the human experience very much but that's really what makes us the embodiment of everything that is regarded as Spiritual. Forgiveness doesn't exist where there is nothing to forgive, empathy doesn't exist where nobody hurts inside and Unconditional Love is not unconditional where no conditions exist.

Perhaps Spirit Honours our Paths where we do not.

muffin 22-09-2019 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
Why is it difficult to define Spirituality?
You would think there would be much commonality between belief systems
but it appears there is is a lot of polarization. How can this be?


Good point.



Good afternoon BigJohn :smile:

Your looking from a human point of view, have fun with that :biggrin:

And then your trying to get an arrangement on it, like thats going to happen :wink:

hallow 22-09-2019 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
Why is it difficult to define Spirituality?
You would think there would be much commonality between belief systems
but it appears there is is a lot of polarization. How can this be?


Good point.

it's a big world out there, different backgrounds, and environments. Your spiritual path comparison to everyone looks like a world road map. Pick a road and take it. Any of them roads are going to create your character. I don't think anyone is 100% right or wrong. It's all up to you. Your always going to be right for you.

Jyotir 22-09-2019 02:56 PM





It is not really true that it is "hard to define spirituality", even if that premise makes for protracted and indeterminate discussion.

Spirituality can be and has been defined, importantly and significantly by its own masters, progenitors, and proponents.
Not a big deal unless it’s important to make it so difficult for one’s (ego’s) diversionary agenda that conveniently ignores the former, and focuses primarily on the limited means and methods of the latter.

Definition of spirituality:
In human beings (individually or collectively), spirituality is the awakening to the possibility of, and subsequent undertaking of a conscious deliberate acceleration of the evolution of consciousness occurring generally in Nature, by some practice or method which is effective for accomplishing that intention, e.g., Yoga, through the application of the self-conscious intelligent will.

Done.

And it doesn’t matter by which effective method. Truth is One, paths are many. Truth is both the way and the goal.
However, intrinsic to human life which is predominantly mental, there are some intermediate problems:

1) The mind rejects the definition because by nature, it doesn’t want to be spiritual. Spirituality represents too much of a sacrifice of status quo of the familiar acquired habits and prerogatives of superficial mind-bound limited life, regardless of how unsatisfying it is. The now developed mental faculty, the mind, reasons to remain untransformed as a ‘superior’ mode of being (because by its limited cognition, it is - or superficially seems to be), and this is the pre-eminent problem of human life. It’s a threat to the sovereignty of dominant ego-mind, which has developed its separative objective consciousness in many previous incarnations and has reached a culmination whereby post-awakening, it may then potentially consciously surrender to higher principle within, which is what spirituality is.

2) Disagreement about various approaches and forms of practice appear to, (or, per #1, need to) invalidate the general premise or definition. The fact that there are many ways to practice and realize the goal and purpose of spirituality does not necessarily invalidate its possibilities or eventualities.

3) Similarly, an equivocation of the general unconscious cosmic evolution as spiritual, with what is the conscious application of the intelligent will in specific individuated human beings to accelerate the general process. They are not mutually exclusive to each other. Technically, the general evolutionary process is ‘spiritual’ in its procession, - but very very very slow. This is why the self-conscious opportunity to accelerate the general process, while also spiritual - is therefore especially spiritual as a concentration of the self-same tendency.


~ J


guthrio 22-09-2019 06:47 PM

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO DEFINE SPIRITUALITY?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
Why is it difficult to define Spirituality?
You would think there would be much commonality between belief systems
but it appears there is is a lot of polarization. How can this be?


Good point.


Hello BigJohn,

Consider this answer to your excellent question, "Why is it so hard to define Spirituality?" as an analogy expressed this way, "The map of our definitions is not the territory of Reality".

....and here is the rub: The map can never be the territory, Itself, regardless how detailed or comprehensive the commonality or disparity there may be between belief systems.

Why?

As indicated in the 1st reference, "....because these "aspects", however named, are REALLY the Whole system acting AS IF IT WERE the "part" we, myopically and erroneously call it, to the EXCLUSION of the Whole, without which the "part" is not even ABLE to be manifested for our "inspection" and "description" or our "discussion" of it !"

....not even if the "part" of the Whole erroneously self-described as Man, says to himself, "that (whatever it is) is "its" name". Really?

Not Really! Because we have taught ourselves to accept the Undifferentiated Unnameable Reality as being thus differentiated, thus defined, and thus named...as if the maps CAN ACTUALLY BE the territory.

The MAP'S designations are MADE UP in order for us to pretend that there IS a "before" and an "after", "here" and "there", a "going away from...." and a "return to..." in order to justify support for a misinterpretation, all-too-prevalent in ALL our beliefs and language; the erroneous bifurcation of the observer from the observed in a Unitary Reality.

As excerpted from the 2nd reference:

"Physiological reality, take me literally... is a mirror, it is just a more complex mirror, a holographic mirror... a multi-dimensional mirror, so that you don't always recognize all the reflections as you, but believe me... they are... .all the reflections are you, and I mean literally every object, person, place and thing, every situation... every circumstance, every moment of time and space is you being reflected back to yourself, from the particular point of view you chose to express at that particular moment. The idea therefore, is to understand, that what you will always discover, will simply be All That Is expressing itself through the unique portion of All That Is you were created to be. Remember the Second Law: "The One is All, the All are One". Every component of the All That Is, all of you... all of us, every individuated being... every individuated concept, is the whole expressing itself as a part. Important point... I'll rewind that and repeat it, because we understand that you have been trained to think segregationally, sometimes individuals on your planet may miss the point, all of you are, yes... a part of the whole, but as a part of the whole, you are the Whole expressing Itself as "a part of the whole". Big difference than just thinking of yourself as a part of the whole without the other side. You have to understand yourself holographically, it is this and that... not this or that. So, you are the part... you are the whole, you are both one and the same, but expressing the whole as a part."

Ironically, we remain absolutely free to continue "part-itioning" :smile: each other's "definitions of Spirituality " even while each of us actually IS the Whole "territory" and even to call ourselves and our way of thinking as (fill in the "adherent's" blank) all the WHILE trying to MAP it, and even living it, as if the Whole were parts so named! Really? :confused:

Really!

How? Because the Whole is All That Is, whether defined, mapped, named.....or not! :hug3:

Hope this, and the references below, helps....

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=77

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...1&postcount=75

Greenslade 24-09-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guthrio
How? Because the Whole is All That Is, whether defined, mapped,

Well yes, and if there is nothing that is not part of the whole then there is nothing that is not Spiritual. Even ego, or the bad guys, or those that trespass against us. Perhaps a better question is what are the reasons we're trying to define it?

guthrio 24-09-2019 05:07 PM

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO DEFINE SPIRITUALITY?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenslade
Well yes, and if there is nothing that is not part of the whole then there is nothing that is not Spiritual. Even ego, or the bad guys, or those that trespass against us. Perhaps a better question is what are the reasons we're trying to define it?


Brother Greenslade,

I can think of no better example to answer your question than your own excellent signature message: "Take your legacy and understand what has gone before. Make a new tomorrow in Love, Light and Faith."

So what has gone before? As indicated in the 1st reference, The Game of Life : Creating Your Own Reality,

"Imagine that you are about to participate in an interactive role-playing game. There are rules in this game that everyone agrees to: what goes up must come down, day is followed by night, if you touch a flame it will burn you, etc. etc. You get to choose the character you play beforehand; shall I be black or white, Australian or American, male or female? You might even choose to meet up with others in the game, which is tricky because you won’t necessarily remember them when you see them. To enter the game, you must be “born” and become completely helpless. You must forget everything you know and start all over again. You are given sets of rules by the “older” players which you learn as you go along. After a given time, you are declared an “adult” by the other players and are sent out on your own. The thing is, after a while, you become so involved, so completely immersed in the personality of the character that you are playing in this game, that you forget who you really are. You forget that you’re even in a game, and you begin to believe that the game is all there is. Now, you still get to decide everything that happens to your character, which you do constantly, but as a player who has now totally identified with the character you have chosen to portray, you begin to believe that everything that transpires is happening by “chance” or “fate”. When the character you play goes to sleep, you return to your real self. This is also your opportunity to plan ahead and manifest the character's desires and wishes. When the character later awakens, it is with the belief that he/she was simply “dreaming”.

How? I am also reminded that the signature of my Friend, Miss Hepburn, contains the following quote from Lahiri Mahasaya: "Meditate unceasingly that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence". Does that mean sitting around meditating? To my mind, it does not and cannot, because the Infinite Essence lives on this plane of existence AS US in action, in a continuation of the aforementioned "game". I believe that the Creator's own intent continues to be to participate as US, in this multi-dimensional, multi-incarnational, multi-"face"-eted game of discovering new ways to know Itself....from Alpha to Omega....ad infinitum.

It seems the part that is all-to-often overlooked in the "roles" we're playing is that the aforementioned "game" includes the ever-present opportunity for us to remember, but more importantly, to actualize our own awakening AT ANY TIME, in these very roles by remembering that:

We have always been Who we truly are, awaiting our own remembrance on Earth that I AM THAT I AM as in Heaven. Guthrio

....at which point, we will realize, as I've stated in another post to you, that we've never left Heaven, at all! per the 2nd reference, replying to your earlier statement: "You have always been here." Kosh. :smile:

Which brings me to this part of your superb signature, "Make a new tomorrow in Love, Light and Faith."

As the Infinite Essence, we have always been in Love and Light in which every moment remains an open invitation for ourselves to faithfully actualize the promise that this is so....now. :hug3:

Hear from one who has actualized that promise in the following testimony describing the very experience OF HOW each of us WILL WAKE UP from the "forms" we occupy in "this" Earthly portion of the "game" to another equally real "form". It describes the reunion of a resurrected guru, Sri Yukteswar, (himself a disciple of Lahiri Mahasaya), who returned to Earth, for a brief interlude with his own former disciple, Paramahansa Yogananda, from a higher vibratory sphere called Hiranyaloka. Here's an excerpt from the 3rd source below:

"O Master", Yogananda said, "I was grieving so deeply about your death!" "Ah, wherein did I die? Isn't there some contradiction?" said Sri Yukteswar, eyes twinkling with love and amusement. Sri Yukteswar goes on to say to his former disciple, "You were only dreaming on earth; on that earth you saw my dream-body. Later you buried that dream-image. Now my finer fleshly body--which you behold and are even now embracing rather closely!--is resurrected on another finer dream-planet of God. Someday that finer dream-body and finer dream-planet will pass away; they too are not forever. All dream-bubbles must eventually burst at a final wakeful touch. Differentiate, my son Yogananda, between dreams and Reality!"

See the words, in the last reference, that personally changed my life, describing the mastery with we are each endowed, by the Creator, "I wish to call your attention more fully to the fact that man in his right domain is limitless, knows no limit of time or space. Man, when he knows himself, is not obliged to toil wearily along for five days to accomplish ninety miles. Man in his right estate can accomplish any distance, it matters not the magnitude, instantly. A moment ago I was in the village from which you departed five days ago. What you saw as my body still reposes there. Your associate, whom you left in that village, will tell you that, until a few moments before four o'clock, I conversed with him, stating that I would go to greet you as you would arrive here about this hour..."

This "version of Earth" is a SCHOOL in which we practice BEING the Spiritual Progeny we truly are, and have always been, as the Masters you will read about in the last reference, have done. It is our birthright to.....

Awaken...

The Creator's dreams are what WE experience as Reality...

The Creator is ALL THERE IS to BE anyone or anything...

The Creator is Who we, and each other, are....

....as the "game" continues.... :hug3:

Reference: http://www.the-office.com/seth/

Reference:http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...2&postcount=60

Reference: https://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chapter-43/

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...44&postcount=1 Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East by Baird T. Spaulding


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