||14-01-2020 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by BigJohn
I stated that Hell is not in the Bible. You were able to show Hell is mentioned in an older King James translation. I produced the same scripture but from the New King James translation which does not use Hell.
The issue was not what the scripture says but over the issue that Hell is not mentioned in the Bible, at least Bibles that are based on better translations and older manuscripts, etc. that have been found to prove Hell was not suppose to be in the Bible. That whole doctrine of Hell, appears to have been completely made up.
In disagreement with your statement: The
'issue' which you
clearly raised was tradition
al Judeo-Christian notions
about the "wrath" of "God".
Originally Posted by BigJohn
If some would open their Bibles, that is after they go and get one, they would realize Hell is not in the Bible.
How much wrath was thrown around because this simple 'step' could not be implemented?
IMO, this 'issue' cannot
be logically re-solved by glibly
ex-changing one 'label' (Hell) for another (Hades) by way of Biblical restranslation. From my treatise:
This final, because then absolutely irremediable, ‘loss’ is what is referenced as the ‘second death’ in The Book of Revelation, which, notwithstanding the fact that the author distorts the truth by conflating the personage of Jesus with The Entity of Life (a/k/a Christ) as well as by projecting all anti‑Christ ‘wrongdoing’ to be the work of a singularly evil, mythological Satan – alas, ‘channeled’ material cannot help but be conceptually ‘shaped’ and emotionally ‘colored’ by the belief-set of the ‘channeler’! – nevertheless appropriately, I think, places the phenomenon referenced in reincarnational perspective, to wit: “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast [the ‘beast’, of course, just being gross selfishness], neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand [obviously, designating more than a single lifetime of] years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the ‘second death’ hath no power, but they shall be [i.e., they shall reincarnate as] priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan [to wit: the ‘spirit’ of unmitigated self*ishness] shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth … to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they [the huge number of grossly selfish people you see running rampant all over the world today!] went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city.” (Revelation 20:4-9)
While I’m at it, in relation to the eschatological ‘vision’ described in said book, let me also add that, given the horribleness of the horrors and the miserableness of the miseries that ‘deceived’ (by selfishness) people spawn, it is more than understandable why folks would reactively feel and fantasize that perpetrators in said regards should and will not just be annihilated but additionally suffer the most hellish :smile: kinds of torture imaginable in retribution, by way of the above-referenced ‘second death’ (following their bodies’ physical one), as grimly portrayed for instance in: “And fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. … And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:9-15)
An equally grotesque, clearly retribution projecting fantasy that grossly selfish and consequently hateful deniers of their and others’ communality with all Life will suffer the worst imaginable fate – albeit in this case, with said ‘fate’ ever-continuing to spiral ‘downward’ without end, which leaves the issue of what ultimately ‘happens’ to such souls schematically unresolved – is documented in Ch.16 of The Bhagavad Gita, to wit: “Puffed up by power and inordinate conceit, swayed by lust and wrath, these wicked people hate Me Who am within them, as I am within all. Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth. So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, … but degenerate into still lower forms of life.” Both this and the above-described ‘final judgment’ scenario are clearly negative‑emotion ‘loaded’ and thematically vengeful. Such negativity and punitiveness are not ‘in accord’ with Jesus’ vision and teaching (presented and discussed in the preceding chapter) that Love and Joy constitute Life’s universal Source ‘code’, to wit, that ‘God’ is a beneficently-inclined ‘Father’, from which all Life springs, however.
To reinforce the logic of this, let me first emphasize the significance of something which tends to be underappreciated by still psychospiritually immature Love and Joy seekers, sharers and bequeathers as a result of their continuing to be susceptible to being ‘tempted’ by and (so) over‑subscribing to a ‘carnal’, i.e, body based, pleasure-desirous and pain‑aversive calculus. ‘Succeeding’ (in the sense of experiencing what one ‘likes’ and not experiencing what one ‘dislikes’) in said regard does not (not in and of itself at least) lead to folks becoming unself*ishly (and hence holistically, or Cosmically) loving and joyful or incline them to synergically engage with and creatively augment such sort of soul development in others. I’m sure you see this to be true in the cases of many ‘successful’ (in ‘world*ly’ terms, that is) people around you. What’s more – and this is something that merits even greater concern because of the ‘negative’ consequences that stem from people en masse aiming to ‘succeed’ so – those who primarily seek and support others’ seeking to maximize personal pleasure‑n-gain and corollarily minimize personal pain-and-loss experience(s) actually end up diminishing the chances that they and those they thus support will develop in a communion‑with-Life actualizing direction. Why? Because such ‘focus’ leads to them and such others being ‘blindly’ negligent and unconscionably usurpatory in relation to other co-related aspects of The Flow of Life which are therefore not appropriately recognized as also being important and so not befittingly (in terms of what is necessary and desirable for said other concomitants to be co-functional) related to.
There have been countless major and minor instances of such negligence and usurpation by temperospatially oriented, immediate-local pleasure and pain ‘geared’ folks (believers in ‘eternal life’ included!) over the course of history which you have probably heard and read about, as well as many I’m sure you’ve personally experienced or at least witnessed in the context of your present lifetime, some (because of your own psychospiritual immaturities) undoubtedly even perpetrated by yourself. In macroscopic consequence, as a result of large and increasing numbers of people and the organizations they subscribe to basically being pleasure-pain principle driven to feed off of and serve to amplify the growth of unsustainable (because conglomerately selfish!) socioeconomic pyramid schemes which consume and pollute more than they contribute to and nurture, they cumulatively end up drastically degrading and disrupting, the systemic health and well‑functioning of the Living Matrix, which they for the most part just give ‘lip service’ to, that is our physiosocial ‘home’. As is clearly the case confronting us here now, notwithstanding the inherent munificence of Life’s Flow and the generous contributions and services which have historically been made and provided and continue to be made and provided by a growing number of holistically Love and Joy oriented people in It, waves of social and ecosystemic decay and destruction then metastatically ripple andmrichochet around our planet and climax in devastating catastrophes as the ‘negative’ effects of such mainly pleasure-desirous-n-pain-aversive choices repercussively reinforce one another in exponential escalation.
Such denouements, which periodically decimate the ranks of a dominant but still mostly selfishly motivated species, have historically often been projected to be expressions of the ‘wrath’ of a God who ‘judges’ the bulk of humanity to be inexcusably ‘sinful’ and ‘deserving’ of severe ‘punishment’ because of its, for the most part, not appropriately ‘heeding’ and ‘obeying’ His ‘edicts’ and ‘commandments’, not ‘paying’ sufficient ‘homage’ to Him, etc. But, as what I’ve said in this chapter should make clear, such devastation is just the cumulative result of many souls collectively ‘losing their balance’ and so ‘stumbling’ and ‘falling’, and (so) ‘hurting’ themselves and others around them as a group, because they haven’t yet developed to the point where they holistically understand and embrace, and so don’t conscientiously act ‘in accord’ with, the fact that they and others, including every aspect of their planetary environment, are not really ‘individually’ separate aspects of Life, but integral part-expressions of The Life of a Cosmically Unitary, self‑and-other inclusive Being!