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Moonglow 07-11-2017 02:08 PM

Religion and Spirtuality
 
Hello,

I may be going out on a limb here, but something has been buzzing around in my mind.

I come across some people who find contagion with religion, yet will claim to be spiritual. Also, come across those that follow a religious practice and live life in a spiritual manner.

So, to clarify my thoughts. To me, religion is spiritual teaching of some kind. It has its practices and belief in a higher power. Seems Spirituality does too.

God, source, universe, I Am, mystery, and so on, all seem to point to something or an energy that is creative and eternal.

Higher self, Holy Spirit, soul, and so on seems to point to a connection to the eternal.

Now I understand religion is human made, IMO. Things done in its name, not all has been beneficial. Isn't it still teaching a Spiritual outlook? How much of Spirituality understandings are created by us?

I feel creating this thread is entering a delicate area, for ones faith and beliefs can be a personal thing. So not looking to knock either.

Just that I see more similarities then differences. I do not perticipate in church, temples, or the like. I still find truths in many of teachings out there and do little rituals at times of my own.

So, ask what do you find to be similar and/or different in regards to Religion and Spirituality?

Please be respectful in responding, thank you.

sky123 07-11-2017 02:36 PM

I would say the difference is that religion is when you believe in someone else's experiences and spirituality is having your own experience.

Jyotir 07-11-2017 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
I would say the difference is that religion is when you believe in someone else's experiences and spirituality is having your own experience.

...And that belief is a form of "having your own experience" too - as a partial identification with some consciousness that is recognized. And to be recognized it has to be within as well.




~ J

Kioma 07-11-2017 03:17 PM

To me it is a confusion of the idea of religion with the reality of religion.

The stated goals of religion are usually very spiritual, but in practice religion far too often serves mainly as a social institution and group identification. It is for this reason I say spirituality is personal while religion is social - because that is what I actually observe.

.

muffin 08-11-2017 12:43 AM

Good afternoon Moonglow :smile:

Going out on a limp or jumping on thin ice, you learn things :biggrin:

Both have there merits and both have been watered down over time and thru overuse, causing confusing.

Moonglow 08-11-2017 12:44 AM

Hello,

Finding it Is what resonates with in.

This I feel can be found through both religion and other spiritual practices.
For what is the difference between deep prayer and meditations?

For me, it has been what has been established through the teachings and practices. Is it what is established or in what ways it is used that creates the faith/trust/knowing?

The church I disagree with its view points on some issues, so don't go.
Find some things under Spirtuality I also do not resonate with, so put it aside.

So yes, experience does bring understanding, but feel also it is what rings true with in.

Yes, can relate that if one is to be dedicated to something or deepening ones understanding that it takes more then just going through the motions, IMO.

Religion in some aspects may focus in on a certain aspect of a teaching, but this can also be found with in what is placed under spirituality as well.

So guess it is what one finds a center with and best guide him/her at present.
Atleast it seems that way for me.

Just wonder at times why there is so much conflict with it as well as some pretty inspirational stuff. For it seems in many ways they go hand in hand.

Thank you all

Moonglow 08-11-2017 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muffin
Good afternoon Moonglow :smile:

Going out on a limp or jumping on thin ice, you learn things :biggrin:

Both have there merits and both have been watered down over time and thru overuse, causing confusing.


Hi muffin:smile:

Yes, simply put find true.

I don't get confused so much by it, anymore, as at times find myself scratching my head and wondering what all the fuss is about

I am also a curious fellow:biggrin:

Kioma 08-11-2017 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonglow
...Just wonder at times why there is so much conflict with it as well as some pretty inspirational stuff. For it seems in many ways they go hand in hand...

I think it is because inevitably religion becomes a worldly entity. It is an organization, facing competition from other organizations, and being an organization depending on greater participation for it's survival. At that point, the focus moves from spiritual principles to power principles. That is where the shift occurs.

The inspirational stuff is still there, but the everyday workings of the church revolve around an entirely different agenda because it is an organization, essentially a business, that is dependent on income, participation, and popular support.

That is the difference.

.

Moonglow 08-11-2017 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioma
I think it is because inevitably religion becomes a worldly entity. It is an organization, facing competition from other organizations, and being an organization depending on greater participation for it's survival. At that point, the focus moves from spiritual principles to power principles. That is where the shift occurs.

The inspirational stuff is still there, but the everyday workings of the church revolve around an entirely different agenda because it is an organization, essentially a business, that is dependent on income, participation, and popular support.

That is the difference.

.


Hi Kioma,

Well said.

You touch upon some issues I have with organized religion and when faith turns into a marketing tool of sorts, IMO.

Why I don't feel comfortable attending church at present.

There are those I've spoken with that say they are aware of those issues, but find grace in attending services. Which is fine with me if that is what works or gives one a center.

I had someone at work ask me if I go to church, I said no. When he asked why, I said that's my bussiness, for didn't want to get into it. He continually persued the issue with saying he didn't understand. Finally I said because the church, to me, seems to more interested in man then God. He agreed a bit on this and said he goes mainly for social reasons. Which I can understand, in a way.

Well, it is my issue and accept that.

But, when money, profit, power, and such gets involved then feel it can twist the intention of what is suppose to be taught or guided, IMO. Which I feel is some of what you bring up.

As far as one practicing, believing, and having faith in something feel it is personal and respected as such, if no harm is being promoted.

A tricky path at times.

Thank you.

Lorelyen 08-11-2017 02:29 PM

Religion is about power and control. The creation of orthodox Christianity by Constantine in the 3rd century is a good example. It was seen as another arm of control over an increasingly sprawling and uncontrollable Roman empire.

Conflicts between religions occur because they're founded by people who come into power. It's the power that's in conflict.

Operationally religions must be imposed on populations to be effective, achieved by coming up with a doctrine - the scriptures, the Holy Book - and inculcating them from birth. The imposing is about taking away individuals' responsibility for their spirituality; telling them what they must believe in and how to go about it. In some Holy Books like the Koran a follower's behaviour is closely regulated.
So it comes down to obeying the priests. If you don't you're heretic/apostate usually inviting punishments which were spectacular. The hope was to deter.

Most of these religions were intolerant and at times hostile. For some priceless and rather horrific examples look at the wars between Christendom and Islam; or those between African religions and Christendom during the slave centuries.

None of this fitted in with gnosticism or individual spiritual development. Some sects managed to preserve their work in clandestine ways like the alchemists and Africans in Europe and the USA.

So to me, spirituality has almost nothing to do with religion.

You could be spiritual to be religious but you're unlikely to be religious if you're individually spiritual.


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