If God is almighty and all-knowing...
 

Why did he test Adam and Eve with a cursed fruit even though he already knew the results?

Why didn't he create more peaceful solutions instead of instructing his followers with wars, violence, mass genocide and infanticide?

Why did he test Abraham to sacrafice his son, even though he already knew Abraham was going to fail the test?

Why didn't he just destroy Satan from the beginning so he wouldn't be allowed to drag humanity with him to his doom?

Or more importantly, why didn't he come with a flawless plan that literally ALL of humanity ends up saved instead of only a small minority making it into heaven?

SOL, did you read what SF member NoOne wrote about the Adam and Eve garden story? I think the thread title was Adam and Eve, although I'm not certain. Would be handy if SF had a search option. Anyway, was a very interesting read, and made more sense than the standard more well known version.

I don't think I did, but the questions I asked here are more meant to challenge the logic of fundamentalists.

I found the page/thread:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...=127413&page=2

Going over old ground these questions I think. Although if needs must.

I have a search option.
After I'm signed in, it is on the top header with

user cp Faq member list calender search new posts and so on.
:smile:

What fun would it be to have no Satan.

It is way funner to scratch your way through Life knowing what the Tree of Life represents has your back.

Oh, The Creator has a flawless plan contained in the Laws that exist.

Have some faith the Creator of ALL will not loose very many if any.

The maze just gets scary at times.

When I first read this I thought this was your advice/joke about life :D Because it fits.

I need a search facility for old threads :tongue:

well why did he let us make our own choices instead of force feeding us the 'correct' way of living like so many around us want to do?

Why do people believe all of the above puzzles me :smile:

Individuality in oneness.....



Diversity

The art of thinking independently together.

Cause he gave them free-will just as he did Adam and Eve. And as each one of us also has free-will.

Probably the same reason there are 2 creation accounts... 1 account would have been fine.

Same holds true withe the Flood accounts.

I'm not that clever.:smile:

:D

The search header of life, if only it were that simple, or maybe it is. :smile:

Hello dearest. I love you very much!

Firstly, God is Love; His very essence is Love and not a conditional one, but an Unadulterated One. This is what Apostle Paul says about Love:

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Here is a clue as to why He did not slap "Adam" on the wrist.

Secondly, God created mankind in His own Image... get that... OWN IMAGE. If God Himself exercised His Will, so it follows that even His own Image should exercise theyre Will unhindered. See that it is also stated that "we are gods..." because part of Him is in us! We are one with God by His Image, and how could God force Himself; this is a contradiction. God does not see a separation, He sees us as a part of Him. Therefore, contradiction isn't possible. I hope that you understand this; you are a creator.

However, to those who are in a covenant/contract with God by Free Will, there are consequences to breaching a contract, albeit any contract! And to such, He gives the right ways.

Ironically enough God murdered more people throughout the bible than Satan, more than often for questionable motives. Did God share the same kind of 'love' and 'patience' when he ordered a wood chopper to be stoned to death for working during the Sabbath day? Did he show all the infants that were killed by his order 'love' and 'patience'?


The bible says that we are made in his image, but it doesn't say that we are gods. In fact, that was the talking anaconda's idea when it tempted Eve to take a bite out of the cursed apple, that she will be like God herself.

That's the spirit.Question everything and everyone.I'm sure you allready know-feel that the dude of the bible wasn't the 'God' exactly,but something else.

Psalm 82:6 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Okay, depending on how you interpret it, perhaps the talking anaconda wasn't wrong after all.

' For the Son of God became man so that we might become God ’ St. Athanasius. '

' The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us share in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men God '. St Thomas Aquinas.

I've copy/paste NoOne's post from other thread. No talking snake full stop.

Not sure if somebody else has already mentioned this, but the archetypes in the Fall of Man / Garden of Eden are pre-Christian and are shared across many cultures.

The tree of life is the Human Body's energetic system. This is even acknowledged in Cabbala.

Adam is the Male creative principle (Shiva in Hinduism)
Eve is the female Creative principle (Shakti in Hinduism)

The Serpent is Kundalini. It can give the gift of eternal life and / or infinite knowledge. It is symbolised by the apple, because it is the fruit that is most obviously of a toroid shape, another key to the mysteries of the Universe.

The fruit of the tree of eternal life / infinite knowledge refers to the same substance that is known as Nectar/Ambrosia to the Greeks and Soma/Amrita to the Hindus. Drinking of this is what gives the gods their immortality and unlimited knowledge. It is actually liquid light, which floods the brain upon illumination.

Those that are enlightened, drink of the Soma/Nectar constantly, giving them longevity, but chiefly, intuitive knowledge and a connection the divine. The Halo shown around saints signifies this illumination, resulting from the constant flow of Soma/Nectar into the brain.


The fall of man signifies man's fall from grace, from his previous divine state into that of gross matter. The serpent is shown wrapped around the tree of life facing downwards, which signifies the fall of the Kundalini from its exalted position of contact with the divine to "slithering in the dust".

The Gnostics would agree with this explanation, though the Roman church would vehemently deny it of course.

Sorry, if this was too esoteric, but explaining these concepts properly would require several books, this is a very simplistic attempt at arriving at a synthesis of the various facts available in different cultures and religious/spiritual traditions.

You take an argumentative stance, and so I make a stance also. You aren't looking for the essence behind Christianity, but aim only to discredit it. Try as you might, you won't succeed. As many of them that have tried, have failed and you'll just be piled up with the rest of them.

To understand this properly, you need to be able to access the inner mysteries of the Bible. As you read it, it isn't supposed to make sense because It is a book of Mysteries. If man himself is wise to hide mysteries from common men, what more their Creator? Yeshua says not to cast your pearls before swines or they would trample them down. It's written that Adam and Eve ate an apple and fell... that's a mystery my friend! Its full of Mysteries, and if it were so that all the mysteries were written as is, they'd be edited and people would be deceived.

And then you check the five main religions and they are all old except for Christianity which is only like 2,000 years old... there's gotta be something about this...

The key to understanding the Bible is the Holy Spirit who teaches the student all things and He is the one that unlocks the Bibles mysteries. Edit the Bible; New English Version, English Standard Version the remix featuring Jesus in Blue, Slayer of Light version, but if you got the key, you access the mysteries regardless of how the Bible is edited.

Now to the questions:

Love indeed is kind and patient, but you forgot to read that Love does not delight in evil. And make no mistake Slayer of Light, you try kidnap babies and rape them and the mothers see you on the primetime news as a wanted man, even if some women don't believe in God, they'd still pray to God to rid you off the face of the earth. And Justice must be served!

The common error is to believe that one's own idea of what good and evil should be is correct. Honestly, what do humans know? Prophet Jeremiah said "O Lord, I know the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his steps." If we did know the way, we wouldn't need God in the first place. Socrates said, I don't know a thing.

Concerning what people agree to and what contract and covenants they sign, I believe there are consequences to breaking them. I think that if one acts in such a way as to break the law or constitution, they will be punished.

The Tree of Life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil are 2 different trees.

Lets get the serpent out of The Tree Of Life please.

Serpent in the Hebrew=Nachash (from it's snake like hiss)
It's root word meaning is ("Hiss" to whisper a magic spell).

Serpent in the Greek= Ophis (sly, cunning like a snake)
Root word optanomai ( voice)

At least lets start from what the words in Genesis are.
Which they are talking about a voice of enchantment that was casting a spell by cunning.

I can see No One wants to align things to represent the kundalini, but you have to be careful
when doing so.
Unless your saying and agree that kundalini is a enchanting voice that casts a spell.

Thing is, we'll never know how to perfectly interpret the bible. What NoOne wrote here reasonates more than a literal interpretation though. But as I said, I was questioning the fundamentalist's perspective on their horrifying version of the biblical god.

I suggest to read Lobsang Rampa books about the 'gardeners' and the garden of Eden.

Acts 13:8
But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

For me a 'god' who asks from a human to sacrifice his son in order to prove his faith,is nothing more than a psychopathic alien.
[common sense]

Watch me.


Okay, so I take that you aren't a fundamentalistic Christian then? Because they don't believe in mysteries. They claim to know it all, and everyone who disagrees with them is simply possessed by the devil himself, spreading lies. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


I don't need a god to tell me what's good and evil. Any decent person knows how to be good without reading an ancient book with a strict set of rules. God may say homosexuality is evil, and even though the sight of it disgusts me as a heterosexual, I don't see it as evil as long nobody gets harmed and if there's at least respect. If God's self esteem is under fire by some victimless crimes which the bible condemns, then the problem lies with God, not with men.

And if I am breaking this so-called contract by having my own opinion and deserve to be tortured over it for the rest of eternity, then God is not loving and patient, but rather a dominant and totalitarian tyrant. It's as simple as that.

Slayer you seem to think every Christian is a fundamentalist of extreme proportions, the views you describe are in the minority today because its obvious they do not reflect God's nature. Why not join in the re-evaluation of God's nature instead of opposing something that was never true?

Hate to inform you, but they are far from a minority. At least, from my own personal experience. Perhaps you didn't had a lot of dealings with them.

while this is a very good explanation, I still don't see why snakes cannot talk?

Maybe because parseltongue is something purely fictional?

This is not just an Adam and Eve story.

We are all left with the same choices today.

Tree of Life and All it represents which is a way of Light,Love and Life.
Or The Way, The Truth and The Life.
Life is in the blood not the energy/nervous system.
VS.
Tree of knowledge of good and evil.
This tree is EGO knowledge that allows one to judge good and evil with EGO knowledge.(Playing God)
In order to judge evil you must consider yourself good.
In order to judge good you think you know what good is.
A person has no problem calling good evil and evil good.
When partaking of this tree your Spiritual Light is week
since all have lost there robes of Light and lost our direct connection
with the Creator of the Uni-verse.So needing the animal skin sacrifice for clothes
instead of the fig leaf.

There was darkness upon the face of the deep.
Let there BE Light.And it was GOOD
Light called Day and darkness called night.
Evening and Morning were the first day.

If you knew the meanings of the words I wrote above here you could have your blinders ripped off.
But most don't really care to properly investigate.
No I would just rather listen to the kundalini and soma and amrita theories and call it GOOD.

but we are told even the rocks and stones would start to sing. Why can't snakes talk? Maybe it is just that noone is listening?

this makes a lot of sense :smile:

yeah i agree the 'correct' ways according to god are available if you want them, but I guess he doesn't MAKE us take them up? Which it is a real relief to get a choice for a change, what with everyone complaining about how one should be all day long!

As far as slapping adam on the wrist well I think the curse on males (genesis 3:17) makes a nice slap for adam's wrist!

This is how I think also.

I am aware of Native American Creation stories and they go even further.

Many say back before Man wanted to be God that men talked with animals
and plants and rocks in a direct communication.

Biblical writings say Adam named the animals.
I believe this is referring to this time when we had direct communication with them.

You seem to have made a few presumptions there ImthatIm. Mainly about me being closed minded. Sounds like you yourself have decided what's what, and that's that.

In Hebrew, that expression 'gods' is Elohim.

In Hebrew, Elohim was translated into God in the first creation account (Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3).

I was talking to anyone that tries to say kundalini and what is translated serpent in Genisis is the same. I am not saying you are closed minded.
I only used the word blinders. which is partial sight.I just want people to know what serpent in Gen. is, in Hebrew.The full sight/vision/field of view.

The hebrew words the bible uses are saying the serpent is casting a spell.

So if that is the same as kudalini then why would someone want kundalini rising.

Granted I no nothing really of kundalini but I can read books that translate the english into the Hebrew. The original writing of Gen. in the Bible.

I assumed that kundalini was a good energy.

Serpent in Gen. is roughly saying enchanting with words and casting a spell. Also a hypnotic vision. "Eve says the tree looks good for food"

If you want to believe they are the same your are free to.
I want my Light robe back that was given before the Tree and serpent story.
I don't want to wear animal skins no more.
I assure you that I believe this serpent and tree symbol represents the part of the darkness that was on the face of the deep.Before the Light came to BE.The Hebrew words lean toward that.

I am not trying to be personal, I just wish terms like kundalini and serpent would not be mixed together without some good investigation.

I do realize I write matter of factly. I do realize my writings are crude and poorly constructed.
Writing is not a strong suit of mine.