Mind and Ego
 

I'm sure you know the origin of the term "Ego"and its use made popular by Freud so no need to go into that.

We know from our own experience that mind works on, thinks about, worries about, feelings of discomfort experienced by the organism it serves. It searches through its memeory to see if it has already solved the discomfort and applies that again or, if not dealt with before, it searches externally for more data in the hope of finding a solution and if successful applies that new solution.

One of the discomforts in life that we exprience is rejection, usually starting at an early age. That discomfort is passed to mind like any other discomfort. What mind comes up with in an attempt at a solution, is the construction of a character that it thinks will deflect rejection. That construction is our Ego. It is a defensive construction designed to protect the organism from rejection. Some constructions are more successful at doing that than others. Like all the constructions of mind, it takes energy to maintain that character. Mind does not use energy unnecessarily and monitors the construction to see if the defence can be reduced as we evolve through our experience of life. This happens automatically as does all the activity of mind. Once we understand the purpose and function of our mind and its child Ego we do not have to eliminate either but can simply leave it do its thing. It is automatically kept under review.

The idea that ego needs purifying and the mind quitening will be because that is what mind has come up with in response to the particular details of the rejection experienced by the organism it serves. It is no better or worse that any other solution because each solution relates to the particular context of the organism concerned. Mind will put in place whatever eliefs are necessary to maintain its Ego construction.

This need for protection is why the mind will not allow itself to be undermined but will present as undermined if that is what is required for its survival. Taking on the mind is always a losing battle. Ironically it will drive you mad or kill you as a last resort to stop itself being undermined because it thinks, quite rightly, that you cannot survive without it.

What you think you see as the appearance of mind overcome is a construction of mind! It is far too clever to allow the Ego it has created to be successful in overcoming it

I like your views in this...Rejection is a big issue and often it contaminates the whole of one's processors in that mode of being, unless of course your in review and self aware to notice yourself in this way. Rejection and abandonment for the inner child can be so traumatic, so to stabilize and control re entering fully into that pain and trauma and manage oneself, there is often a block/wall put in place. Most often because these issues create a perceived idea that pain represents a severe loss.
So for it's own survival, those protective alliances within the bodies system will set itself up to manage further points of pain and trauma mimicking and replaying throughout ones life. When it is time for the walls to come down, at times the whole system will fall away conditioned in this manner, so it can be a profound shift in total awareness of self realization.

Taking on the mind is always a losing battle- indeed!

In a way your personalising the mind and suggesting the mind has an agenda to keep you within / of it .

I see the mind perhaps differently from most in that it is the environment for one to experience the mind-body experience .

The mind in that respect is impartial to whether you can transcend it or not or become trapped within it's fields of supposed influence .

Is it the mind's fault that one can be swayed by the sense of one's ego? I say not .


x daz x

As mentioned elsewhere, the behaviour which some--but not all--describe as egotistic is--imo--designed to provide those who exhibit such behaviour with a sense of significance or an increased sense of significance. Attempting to do so by comparative means, relative means, such as needing to be more than, richer than , more noticeable than, etc. Doing so produces artificial differentials between folk with often destructive consequences I think. I believe that loving compassion is the only true and fulfilling way of transfer of significance one to another. petex

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Hey daz.

Would an open mind have an agenda of itself or more an awareness inclusive of the mind/body/spirit? In this way what leads, is a more aware connection from within as a "whole being" as I see it. In some ways the mind is working in harmonized "emptiness" but open, in this way, it is more a vessel of open flow awareness without attachment. So the transcending point is really being open more holistically from your whole being, so there is a more inclusive movement or response in this way. Of course how you determine your own movements will be from the point of your own connection in yourself. Unless of course you can see more beyond that point before your being this..

Yes one can imagine a scenario in which mind no longer has to maintain the character (ego). as a defense against rejection. In that scenario rejection would no longer cause the organism any discomfort whatsoever so the defense would no longer be required. In classic non dual terms there would be non-one there.The organism would then present only as that, a happening organism with no filter of character whatsoever. (and declare that openly as the great masters do). Exactly as it would have been had no ego been constructed in the first place.

It would be what we call Liberation but specific about what that liberation was from, namely the need to present as a separate person/character or at least a full awareness of what that character is/was. In fact that full awareness is probably what triggers the Liberation!!!

For that state to be described as Enlightenment, the embodiment of the concept of Oneness, would be correct without the filter of a defensive construction of character. It is all the unique constructions of ego that make us feel and see ourselves as sepatate from each other. It gives an interesting insight into Nisargaddata's beautiful statement :-

"Knowing you are nothing is wisdom, knowing you are everything is love".

Yes mind is not concerned about ego's attempt to undermine it because it will simply not allow that to happen.The purpose of mind as our protector reamins constant.

What I'm suggesting is that each organism has its own mind as the protector of that organism in terms of providing solutions to discomfort. Do we not know from our own experience that we have that operating? Mind in this sense is defined as the activity of the brain.

That the child ego gets into wanting to usurp the parent mind by quitening it, is ego with inflated ideas of its own importance. A defense gone haywire. Mind will not allow this to happen and will, as a last resort, destroy the ego rather than allow itself to be undermined in that way. Our mental hospitals are full of those whose idea of self/character has disintegrated.

Hey :)

The mind cannot be open or closed or have an agenda of itself . Tis what you are of the mind that can be open or closed or have an agenda .

There can be emptiness of the mind because one is of the mind not engaging in thought or one has transcended the intellectual fields beyond any self reflection .

You suggesting that it is more a vessel of open flow awareness without attachment is more in line with what I have said .


x daz x

The mind cannot do anything . The mind doesn't constrain you or keep you in a specific state of ego, just like the beer you drink doesn't keep you addicted to it .

It is you that is addicted to the beer, it is you that is constricted within mind .


x daz x

That makes sense now. thanks.

What is this "you" you refer to as addicted? and the "you" that wrote "your" post:) Is it the character "daz" and if so what is this "daz"? Is it ego? For what purpose is it apparently existing?:)

It depends what you think mind is. For me it is the activity of the brain and bearing in mind the complexity of the brain and the little we know about it, it is probably capable of anything and may well be the creator of all there is as holograms operating on all the senses, which would be why you cant put your hand through a table:)

I have no idea what you think mind is, or is capabale of.

:)

What you are can be associated with many things, but without the mind one cannot make any associations .

Your definition of the mind makes no sense in relation to the spirit forms that exist without a brain .

Such energies continue to experience / think for themselves so how is that possible based upon your understandings?

The brain is of the mind . Just as the tree is of the mind, your car, the beer you can become addicted too .

Not being able to put your hand through a table is based upon cellular structure / resonance / vibrations .

As said, my understanding of mind refers the entire environment for you to experience you .

Beyond the mind there is no awareness of you as an individual .


x daz x

[quote=God-Like]What you are can be associated with many things, but without the mind one cannot make any associations .

Your definition of the mind makes no sense in relation to the spirit forms that exist without a brain .

Such energies continue to experience / think for themselves so how is that possible based upon your understandings?

The brain is of the mind . Just as the tree is of the mind, your car, the beer you can become addicted too .

Not being able to put your hand through a table is based upon cellular structure / resonance / vibrations .

As said, my understanding of mind refers the entire environment for you to experience you .

Beyond the mind there is no awareness of you as an individual .


x daz x[/QUOTE

Sorry that's too confused for me to unpick. I not saying its your confusion, it may be mine. Re-phrase your definition of the purpose and function of mind if you like and I'll try and get that.

[quote=Iamit]

Okay, no problem, lets say that in order to dream, there requires a foundation / environment / platform in order for you to be able to experience dreaming .

The mind is the environment for any experience you have whether it be dreamful or not . It's the foundation of existence for without it there would be no self relations .

The mind is likened to the canvas of the artist, the artist needs a medium in order to express his creation . It is likened to a mirror also so that you can perceive yourself and everything else in reflection of that .

If you associate the mind with just brain activity then it falls way too short of explaining how other non physical life forms experience what they do without a brain in reflection of my understanding .

The mind is not capable of doing anything .. just as the mind cannot hold you in the ego's clutches or be addicted to beer ..

What you are of the mind is what is capable or not ..

Any clearer?


x daz x

[quote=God-Like]
Sorry Daz. Not happening. Anyway I dont want to get into the detail of which life form, with or without some form of brainlike mechanism may or may not have a mind:).

Lets limit it to people who we know have a brain. So it is being suggested that Mind in people is the activity of the brain. What else are you suggesting is mind in people other than brain activity? Lets get past this definition stuff asap so we can talk about the substance of this thread.

[quote=Iamit]
There is no mind in people . There is the mind in which people are .

The mind allows the experience for every self aware individual .

Take away the brain and you no longer have a physical mind-body experience .

What you will have is different mind-body experience because the mind is still present and so are you .

Everything that appears to you is of the mind whether it is physical or not .


x daz x

[quote=God-Like]
Hey there God-Like/daz :smile:
This is a subtle but very critical distinction IMO.
As I understand it, 'mind' in the sense you've always used it refers to consciousness and more broadly (and perhaps more precisely), to What Is.
I agree, this more expansive understanding is more truly what I myself understand that 'mind' is, as long as we also understand that the awakened mental aspects of mind are ultimately in service to the awakened spiritual aspects of (what we may also term emotional aspects)...particularly the aspects of unity, authentic love, and the state of being one in that love (or, centreness).

I typically have discussed 'mind' in the more commonplace sense of how limiting it is to identify mind primarily with mental aspects/brain function. And how the brain, being only a receiver of consciousness (or mind in the broad, heart-centred sense) never has been and never can be the captain at the helm. It's for this reason that I typically say consciousness or What Is or centre (depending) to indicate where we really live 24/7.

I can totally see how the standard use the of word 'mind' (which is very limited and based on a misleading concept of "who" is driving, IMO) confuses most folks. Most have grown up thinking or believing the brain is in the driver's seat. Whilst in fact, the brain is the antenna or the satellite dish for consciousness (which is also exists beyond time/space and thus is not ever limited to the physical body). We as awakened heart-led consciousness are what our brains have been designed to received and translate.

Our brain picks up our own individuated consciousness, for starters. But as we (as consciousness) more deeply permeate and thus "tune" our physical vessels, we can often pick up quite a bit more as time goes by.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

[quote=God-Like]
Not clear sorry. Lets draw a line under this and hope the distinction whatever it is, doesn't matter and attempt to move on:)

You accept that mind exists so can we settle terms before proceeding further. In your view does mind have a purpose and function, if so what is that purpose and function?

[quote=7luminaries]
I agree in that the mind=brain relationship if left at that is limiting . All one has to understand in such instances is that an individual that is not of the physical experience continues to self relate (ego) and think for themselves . The brain is just a component of the physical body that allows one to operate / function within the body and within a physical environment (amongst other things) .

I see the mind as the foundation for all experience .

Everything is of the mind and it seems Iamit can't understand what I am saying in this regard .

The brain is of the mind, the people are are the mind in the same way a fish is of the ocean .. The ocean is the environment for fish to experience being a fish ..

The mind is an environment for an individual person to experience a physical person .

As said to Iamit, the mind has no agenda, it is not something that can sway you to remain in ego ..

The purpose of the mind if you are listening Iamit is to be the foundation of your experience .


x daz x

[quote=God-Like]
I have no idea what that means. Sorry I give up.

Hello Iamit. Suggestion and support.That to begin to experience oneness we do not have to rely on intellectual thought, something far simpler available to all so inclined is all that is required. Again--good luck and best wishes. petex

[quote=God-Like]
Hey God-Like (Daz), agreed. Also, our consciousness, even apart from the body, not only (in our words) thinks but also feels. So, where you say "mind" for consciousness, I say heart-led mind for heart-led consciousness. When the heart, or multidimensional core of our divine spark, is not allowed to lead with mind in service to heart, we remain misaligned with our centre. Because I don't think most will implicitly understand what I mean without this explanation, I have included it...though you've heard it before.

To clarify further, I give this explanation because whilst in a physical experience, we do experience the surrender of physical mind (ego, intellect, snake brain, etc) to heart, when we come to a certain place on our path. The clarity and power of mind (intellect) to heart-led consciousness (which permeates all we are and all that is, including the physical mind.

When we are not tethered to the physical body, or else when have expanded our awareness of consciousness beyond just our physical realm, then we understand that heart-led consciousness is all-present and is experienced in unity. Time spent in lucid awareness in the spirit realm allows for this understanding quite clearly. Here, the distinctions made in the physical realm are no longer necessary, except when referencing the lack of integrity or unity that may still exist in the physical realm.

But the one other thing I can see is that for those who have yet to experience lucid time concretely spent (so to speak) in the spirit realm, it may be difficult for them to understand that the energy of consciousness never dies, that it merely moves on, or (literally) changes form, from a physical one to an ethereal one.



I agree. As long as we describe that a bit more for others :hug3:
I would also say mind, or consciousness, is the foundation for all experience.
But what else can we say about this to clarify it?

We could say that mind, or consciousness, may expand and deepen infinitely.
The awakened consciousness has awareness of all, including his or her own emotional, spiritual, and mental aspects.

Mind in this understanding is not only intellect, nor just the mental aspects of consciousness. It most especially is also heart and spirit -- the unbounded authentic love which is our ground of being. It is this spirit or authentic love in expression which continually manifests and supports all that is, in our infinite diversity. It exists in (or through) our individuated expression, as well as encompassing all that is.

I hope this might add some clarity (?) for some of the other folks, who may be getting thrown off by the word mind, since we are using it in the broadest way possible whilst many are used to thinking of it in the very narrowest possible sense.

Peace & blessings, Daz :hug3:
7L

[quote=7luminaries]


The mind, consciousness, ego and all that jazz will mean different things to different folk and that's okay .

Some might associate consciousness being the mind . I think it's safe enough to say that you can't separate one without the other so to speak .

Referring to the mind with just the brain of the physical as you know is very limiting and when an individual relates to just that then it has a knock on effect to what everything else means .

My understanding derives from the absence of mind / consciousness so then when awareness returns and when perception returns one begins to understand what is present only when all things were absent ..

As soon as one is self aware there is a foundation of ego whether it's led via the heart or the intellect.. I AM LOVE is ego based if we keep inline with the thread . It also depends on what Ego means . It is rare that people see eye to eye on such things, so all one can do is show their method of workings / understandings .

The main point I was making is that the mind is not holding what you are captive in the ego expression .. but what you are can be easily swayed by our senses that are perceiving the mindful world / universe ..

It's like one can be consumed by materialism and one can be self absorbed so much so that one cannot see the needs of others ..

All is experienced in or of the mind but the mind is not an entity that has an agenda or is it something that can be blamed for how you perceive what's of it .


x daz x

Hey there Dazzer/GL. I agree you can't separate. Using terms like mind, or what is, or (heart-led) consciousness, or authentic love...ultimately, these are all words we use for the same thing.

The thing is, it's really all on a spectrum and typically we are at the individual end of things in our experiences. Though as we expand our individuated consciousness, these "edges" and positions on the spectrum overlap or co-exist or meld together with one another.

The further down the rabbit hole we go, the more it's possible to perceive the both/and perspective and to live there more and more fully. But for many, it will seem odd or different from their own experiences located firmly in the individual end of the spectrum. The experiential gap is a lot of what this boils down to, I'd say.


That's a good point. One thing that is never missing is the love that is what is, or what I call authentic love (in its totality). That is always present. I think that's what we're supposed to remember when perception returns (to the self). The difference is in connecting to what is from our awakened centre (heart-led awareness) versus solely the crown-led awareness (7th versus 10th and beyond...so, not building the crown. Just the crown above the 3rd eye). Authentic love in being and expression is the difference there, IMO.


Yah :D We are given individuate consciousness for a reason...we have choices to take and they matter. We have growing to do. we can choose to go in any given direction, and if we are wise enough and humble enough (both), then we can continually adjust and re-route our course along the way. To approach our centre more truly.

Like this...

Back to you...

That is true and well said. It is what is...or, it is what it is. Something along those lines. Forest for the trees. This illusion of separation only exists so that we can realise it exists via growth and challenge and experience -- and in so doing, therefore realise what truly is and who we truly are. Different aspects of source, connected in various ways.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L