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-   -   Abide As The Self - Ramana Maharishi (https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=118068)

Shivani Devi 09-11-2017 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesboy
I would not say Sadguru nor Mooji are enlightened. To me they are teachers but not at the realized guru level.

I think that is the problem and where your tv story fits. Each of the above just talk. They may say meditate here or do this but beyond that it is talk. A realized guru is much more than that as KS mentions over and over again.

Also, I don't see where a student who may do something wrong is a reflection on the teacher. All you can do is help, if the person then decides to act out in a way that brings discredit to the tradition or the teacher how is it the teachers fault? Is it your fault if your children cheat on a homework assignment at school? No, I would say not.

The thing is to be open. How can a new path, a way come to you if you are closed off and unwilling to even check something out?

Most people here have no clue about guru's or energy or any of these things but they don't mind putting any of it down and saying how bad it is.

But then like Jesus said:

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

You can just keep offering and while most won't take root. Those few that do become bountiful :)

I agree that all they do is talk...and talk...

However, without being enlightened yourself, how can you tell if another is? do you just take somebody's word for it who says: "my guru is an enlightened sage...you should totally suss him/her out" and you could find a million people who will say such a thing, but you don't have the time to check out all those gurus that have helped/inspired other people.

Then, you could see a Buddhist nun like Pema Chodron...go 'she looks/sounds interesting...I wonder what she is up to then? I like what she says...I'll suss her..." only to realise she is yet another 'teacher'.

They say that when the student is ready, the guru will appear...or the student will see an insect/fish as their guru, like the aforementioned Dattatreya...but by that time, a guru is no longer required..

...and so, the seed gets distributed on fertile soil, but without the rain and sunshine, it will just wither and die, like the seed which is cast upon the desert sand.

Om Namah Shivaya

jonesboy 09-11-2017 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I agree that all they do is talk...and talk...

However, without being enlightened yourself, how can you tell if another is? do you just take somebody's word for it who says: "my guru is an enlightened sage...you should totally suss him/her out" and you could find a million people who will say such a thing, but you don't have the time to check out all those gurus that have helped/inspired other people.


You know of the old saying that say's to prepare yourself so that you can know when you are in the presence of a master?

If all they do is talk or talk about the astral, if all they do is mention 3rd eye stuff those are ways of not knowing.. But how can a normal person know?

The presence of a divine being alone pulls you along. Most people as they advance can feel energy, can feel the presence of others around them. But even that strong presence doesn't mean they are enlightened. Just because you go to a temple and experience silence doesn't mean the teacher is enlightened.

Beyond presence is the ability to share it, sharing it by means of oneness, of you connecting to that being anytime, anywhere and being pulled along. Having your upsets gradually let go bit by bit because of the sharing of the light with that guru.

For instance I have a friend who does nothing, no meditation no practices and yet by sharing that light he is now at the Witness stage in daily life. Mooji for instance can't do that.

Quote:

...and so, the seed gets distributed on fertile soil, but without the rain and sunshine, it will just wither and die, like the seed which is cast upon the desert sand.

Om Namah Shivaya

You are right if it doesn't have water or sun it will die. The guru provides that sun and rain. It is always there.. the true test is if the student decides to come outside and partake. If not it is just like the seeds under the rock or the seeds being blown away.

The student has to do the work.. the guru can help speed things along, can help in many ways. but in the end it is you, who has to do the work and let stuff go..

It is like a transmission of grace. One can have a transmission and realize enlightenment right then. The way that happens is by truly letting go, not flinching you could say at the expansion, no fear of the process of truly letting go. It is real easy to flinch at such a time.. The guru provides the grace but it is up to us to not flinch and if we do to keep working on letting go until we are that grace.

Shivani Devi 09-11-2017 02:20 PM

I see...it reminds me of a story I once heard;

Once upon a time there was this half-hearted seeker, who went to India looking for a guru...he ended up in Varanasi somewhere...

He saw this holy sage, sitting in meditation by the banks of the Ganges and was immediately struck by his 'divine energy' or his 'aura'...so he approached the mystic.

"Revered Swami-ji, I have noticed your holy, divine countenance...could you teach me? make me your disciple? enlighten me? please?"

...and of course, the holy sage breaks his samadhi, opens one eye and says "get lost...go away...leave me alone".

Unperturbed by the rude rebuttal, the seeker prostrates himself at the swamis feet..."Oh please holy sage, take me on as your chela...I will do anything you ask and I won't disappoint you...please?"

...and so the swami opens both eyes, stands up, dusts himself off and says "I'm about to do my daily ablutions in holy mother Ganga...if you want to be free from all sin, you must take baptism in the waters of the Ganges."

The seeker says; "Okay, I'll take baptism in the Ganges...anything you want, I will do it..."

So, they both immerse themselves at a deep level in the holy Ganges river...

Then, the Swami said; "please, allow me to baptise you"...and he placed his hand on top of the seekers head and dunked him in...but he didn't remove his hand...he held the seeker under the Ganges water, using both hands for like 2 whole minutes...the seeker was struggling...almost drowning....

Finally, he let go, with the seeker rising up, coughing and spluttering "you fool! you stupid idiot! what the hell were you doing? I could have died!...you heartless moron!"

and the swami said...'so? tell me...what were you thinking as I held you under the water then?

The seeker said "I wasn't thinking anything...I just wanted to breathe! I just wanted to live! I wanted to escape your clutches so I could do that!

The swami then turned to the seeker and said "until your thirst for the Truth and enlightenment is like that, then get lost, go away and leave me alone..."

...and he did.

Om Namah Shivaya

jonesboy 09-11-2017 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I see...it reminds me of a story I once heard;

Once upon a time there was this half-hearted seeker, who went to India looking for a guru...he ended up in Varanasi somewhere...

He saw this holy sage, sitting in meditation by the banks of the Ganges and was immediately struck by his 'divine energy' or his 'aura'...so he approached the mystic.

"Revered Swami-ji, I have noticed your holy, divine countenance...could you teach me? make me your disciple? enlighten me? please?"

...and of course, the holy sage breaks his samadhi, opens one eye and says "get lost...go away...leave me alone".

Unperturbed by the rude rebuttal, the seeker prostrates himself at the swamis feet..."Oh please holy sage, take me on as your chela...I will do anything you ask and I won't disappoint you...please?"

...and so the swami opens both eyes, stands up, dusts himself off and says "I'm about to do my daily ablutions in holy mother Ganga...if you want to be free from all sin, you must take baptism in the waters of the Ganges."

The seeker says; "Okay, I'll take baptism in the Ganges...anything you want, I will do it..."

So, they both immerse themselves at a deep level in the holy Ganges river...

Then, the Swami said; "please, allow me to baptise you"...and he placed his hand on top of the seekers head and dunked him in...but he didn't remove his hand...he held the seeker under the Ganges water, using both hands for like 2 whole minutes...the seeker was struggling...almost drowning....

Finally, he let go, with the seeker rising up, coughing and spluttering "you fool! you stupid idiot! what the hell were you doing? I could have died!...you heartless moron!"

and the swami said...'so? tell me...what were you thinking as I held you under the water then?

The seeker said "I wasn't thinking anything...I just wanted to breathe! I just wanted to live! I wanted to escape your clutches so I could do that!

The swami then turned to the seeker and said "until your thirst for the Truth and enlightenment is like that, then get lost, go away and leave me alone..."

...and he did.

Om Namah Shivaya


Very true in many ways but to me that guru is judging.

I am more of the mindset, help all who come looking. Some may stay, some may go but everyone no matter the faith, determination or depth of being should be helped with open arms. Not just those you find worthy. Remember it is about throwing the seeds and helping them grow.. Not just taking care of the ones with strong growth.

Just my take on things.

FallingLeaves 10-11-2017 01:35 AM

it is actually difficult to keep from getting pushed off the ledge... the further you go the more energy you spend trying to hold things together. Eventually, either everything you do falls apart, or you force yourself to die in the name of keeping it together.

bemusedly, it is much harder just to sit still and not go to all the trouble to try to attain the unattainable, only to find it falling out of your grasp. But in the end it is all you've got.

Shivani Devi 10-11-2017 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
it is actually difficult to keep from getting pushed off the ledge... the further you go the more energy you spend trying to hold things together. Eventually, either everything you do falls apart, or you force yourself to die in the name of keeping it together.

bemusedly, it is much harder just to sit still and not go to all the trouble to try to attain the unattainable, only to find it falling out of your grasp. But in the end it is all you've got.

Namaste.

The trick is to stop trying to hold everything together, thinking you can 'control' it in any way - or even that an amicable agreement can be reached if you 'work at it' because some people (not implying anybody in particular) are simply disagreeable by very nature, no matter what you say or do...and so, you realise that your methods aren't getting you anywhere, and you totally let go...let it go...surrender it....let them punch pillows.

Then, when you get pushed off the ledge, you will fly instead of fall...OR you realise that the whole trick is not to stand too close to the ledge in the first place, where all the 'pushers' are...and you distance yourself from that which will distract you from your peaceful meditation...and make you feel unwanted emotions like 'exasperation', 'frustration' and 'annoyance' when you usually feel NO emotions whatsoever, and if these are the only things you can feel, it is much preferable to feel no emotions at all...but I digress.

They say, it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, but spare a thought for those who have attained the 'unattainable'...only to have it yanked out of their grasp, with a booming voice saying "so, you want it, do you? then bloody work hard for it!".

Om Namah Shivaya

Lynn 10-11-2017 04:27 AM

Hello Members

Instead of closing the thread I have edited out the non related discussion that broke the flow of the thread.

Please take the time to respect each other and to take the time to remember that someone new coming into the thread should be able to follow a flow.

Lynn
SF Admin

Shivani Devi 10-11-2017 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn
Hello Members

Instead of closing the thread I have edited out the non related discussion that broke the flow of the thread.

Please take the time to respect each other and to take the time to remember that someone new coming into the thread should be able to follow a flow.

Lynn
SF Admin

Namaste and Bless you. :hug2:

ARUNACHALA SHIVA OM!!



Arunachala - the dwelling place of Ramana Maharishi, abiding as that which he loved.

Om Namah Shivaya

Gem 10-11-2017 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Thanks.

About this whole 'Guru' thing...I keep getting flashes, like a late-night advertisment on the free-to-air shopping channel:

"Announcer": 'And now, for a limited time...GURU...a tried and tested method that has worked for thousands of people worldwide....here's what a satisfied customer has to say about it:

"Satisfied Customer": 'My whole life was going to hell, before I found the 'GURU METHOD'...now, I couldn't be happier! it has worked for me...and it can work for you too!'

"Announcer": 'That's right folks, but don't take my word for it, here's what Mrs Smith has to say about it:

"Mrs Smith": 'The GURU METHOD totally transformed my life and made me a much peaceful person...I totally recommend it to all seeking personal fulfillment'.

"Announcer": "Thousands of people can't be wrong...so act now and total satisfaction is guaranteed, with a 'karma-backed' warranty and if you are one of the first to respond, we shall give you TWO 'GURU Methods' for the price of one...that's right, one for you and one for a friend, so what are you waiting for? act now so you don't miss out!"

...and this is why I am very hesitant about the whole 'guru thing'.

Om Namah Shivaya


I was too till I read your announcement. Now where I can get me some?

Shivani Devi 10-11-2017 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem
I was too till I read your announcement. Now where I can get me some?

Icwotudidthar. :biggrin:

However, my ambivalence to the announcer's tired, old 'sales pitch' makes me unable to notice that 1800 number which flashes on the screen directly after it. *muahahaha*

However, since posting all of that yesterday, I realise I already HAVE a guru:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakshinamurthy

When one has Dakshinamurthy as their guru, it totally spoils them in regards to all current, modern, human gurus...and that has been my problem with this all along.

In another incarnation, I was one of the 'holy 7' but I keep on forgetting that, keep getting caught up in this human incarnation and taking out all my existential angst on those of a lower vibration...until I get reminded, yet again...and then I am like "fear the skull, people...fear it!'



Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya


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