Origin and Conclusion of the Universe?
Modern science (in it's current popular view) states that existence as we know it was created from a singularity at the begginning of time called the 'Big Bang', from which all life as we know it has originated. From the force of the Big Bang our universe will continue to expand like a ballon up to a point and then either 1) collapse under it's own gravity and form a 'Big Crunch' or 2) continue to expand for infinity. If it were to collapse on itself then theoretically it may be the final 'Big Cruch' that in turn causes another 'Big Bang', thus the universe starts all over again and continues like this for infinity.
Ancient Vedic science states that the Primeval 'Maha-Vishnu' lies on the 'causal ocean' and as he exhales, countless numbers of universes are created from the pores in His skin. Then as He inhales, they are brough back into His body and become unmanifest again untill the time of His next outward breath. Each breath is equivalent to many billions of years according to our calculation. The first living being created in each universe in called 'Brahma' and he is given the task of creating a diversity of life and environments within that particular universe. According to people's karma from the last universe they are put into appropriate bodies in the new one, anything from being Brahma themselves to being a small ant, and the cycle continues for infinity. More purified souls are given the task of stewardship over the existence in a similar fashion to Brahma, and are known as 'devas' but none have his specific powers. Maha-Vishnu originates from The Supreme Personality of Godhead - Krishna, who's abode is beyond this material world. It is said that the material universes exist in a small space of an infinite and eternal 'spiritual sky', known as 'Vaikuntha' in the ancient texts. The spiritual sky, Vaikuntha, is beyond our material conceptions being filled with eternity, knowledge and bliss. In Vaikuntha it is said that 'time is conspicuous by it's absence' and thus there is no creation or dissolution. It is not destroyed when the material universes become unmanifest, but stays as it is. All souls in this material world have their heritage in the spiritual sky, but only by re-awakening one's relationship with the Supreme Person can we return to the eternal abode. Once our original relationship is re-awakened then we actually enter into 'Vaikuntha', even while we are still linked to our physical body on the earth planet. It seems to me that after many years of research we may just be begginning to discover the first part of this story. Does it make sense that an ancient 'aboriginal' people could create a philosophy of creation involving time scales into billions of years, and knowledge of other planets and alternate universes? Or could it be that they knew a lot of things that we don't? Any views on origins of creation? - Please post here. Peace, Love & Hare Krishna, Das |
Excellent work DASA - you have put a lot of big things very succinctly...
Yes it seems like science is slowly feeling its way back to the ancient philosophy of the universe being like a breathing being - expand, contract, expand, contract - presumably this breathing being has its own life / death / rebirth cycle and so on to eternity/infinity. I go with the ancients - everything is cyclical - there is no end and no beginning, it just loops round - this is the only fathomable explanation of eternity and infinity - if you go far enough you come back to where you are now - the future is the past (and vice versa) - hence the ancient symbols for these things of the circle and the figure eight, the serpent consuming its own tail, etc. Quote:
The experience of being a soul in the 'spiritual sky' is of being beyond time and space - on a different plane or dimension to the physical universe. So concepts of eternity and infinity are not relevant. Neither are death or birth, origin or destination. These things are only relevant in the physical universe. I believe that the ancients were much more in tune with the true realities of time, space, matter, spirit, the universe, etc, than we are - but their understanding was intuitive - we have more 'knowledge' but are blinded by our own rationality which blocks our intuition. Religion rejects materialism - "matter doesn't matter" - and science rejects spirituality because it cannot be proven using material instruments.... when science and spirituality learn to embrace each other there will be quantum leaps in scientific knowledge 8) |
Re: Reply
"we have more 'knowledge' but are blinded by our own rationality which blocks our intuition. "
- I like that point you make. There is an information overload in society at the moment, but often wisdom seems lacking. "Religion rejects materialism - "matter doesn't matter" - and science rejects spirituality because it cannot be proven using material instruments.... when science and spirituality learn to embrace each other there will be quantum leaps in scientific knowledge." Modern day Einstein's & Newton's ... I hope it happens sometime soon. Thanks Howiemac Gouranga !! :-) |
I don't think the universe ever originated, because it was already something before there was anything anyway, so this is all I'm gona say :).
Even if there were nothing, there would still be something. For example: Silence has always existed & will always exist, but what created silence? It is beyond human comprehension so I'm not even gona try anything beyond that :) namaste :) |
8-infinite-8 - -
Silence wasn't created. It exists. |
Everything in existence has it's purpose therefore has been created ultimately, in my opinion, somehow, i dont know how, but that's what i recon.
There is no right & wrong because even you my friend don't know why we exist. Philosophy, spirituality, meta-physics holds no fact's, it is all theoretical & up for interpretation without evidence. From the human perspective silence just exists, but how do you know that silence to us, is'nt music to God?. Our perceptions are limited, that's why i said that it is beyond the comprehension of our human minds, meaning that all we can do is philosiphize, & beleive in what feels right for us & contemplate the opinions of others as you would expect them to contemplate yours. All of what I say is just another way of looking at it, If you dont know why you exist, then you dont know much at all realistically, In my opinion & neither do I :smile: |
Quote:
Interesting answer. I must comment on one thing though. The reason we humans don't know any thing is because we keep telling ourselves we do not know anything, therefore how are we supposed to know anything? To be honest, we humans know a lot AND a little, it is all relative really. Humans will keep telling themselves that their perceptions are limited and so they will be until we know that we know that our perceptions are unlimited. It is true that we philospohise and discuss facts and it is all 'without' evidence but at the end of the day what counts is what you believe. The reason for discussing beliefs is that it is all leading upto us recognising ourselves for what we are. IMO, we should always KNOW. Confusion will reign without KNOWING. Never limit yourself. Think unlimited perspective, unlimited senses and KNOW that you are balanced in your vision whilst doing this. |
Quote:
Good point, & I totally agree that what we tell ourselves manifest's, but I cannot help think that we are somehow meant to be limited to a degree. I guess it depends on your beliefs on the after life & your beliefs in general really. Perhaps that is why Earth exists, a school for the recognition & strengthening of your own truth, therefore you must be blinded first in order to apreciate true vision. We are a very young race of 32,000 years compared to say the atlantians who lived aparently for 480,000 years. I think in terms of evolution we're also limited to information by all the negative energy in the world. I agree that we are the ones that limit ourselves, but i think it's also the collective state of consciousness that the world is in, & that in which we have been subjected to that may take generations to improve. Maybe it's just not meant to be any better at the moment :smile: who knows, interesting though. Blessings :) |
I like the way this thread is going guys and gals,
I have struggled with the whole, `We actually know nothing ` concept for years. 1) We are told by classic eastern philosophy thAT THIS WORLD IS AN ILLUSION (MAYA). (oops pressed the caps key by mistake, sorry folks , I`m not making any resounding statement here, just couldn`t be bothered to delete and re type, Do you guys ever get that???) 2) For the most part those of us who discuss spiritual matters here have (and I apologise to those of you that have definite serious undeniable experiences) very few tangible definite experiences so our discussions are really just philosophical debates, that take place through the illusion of maya. It makes me laugh sometimes when people get upset or worked up because their `Point of view` is attcked or criticised by another person, when in truth non of us no any bloody thing really!!! |
Quote:
Hi 8-infinite-8, Thanks for your well-balanced reply. I'm reading a book at the moment called 'Discover Atlantis' by Diana Cooper. She claims to be in touch with a 'Lord of Light' by the name of Lord Kumeka. In this book, we discover that the Atlantean's are US! What do you think of that? Anyways, 8-infinite-8, I also read in another thread that you were quite the believer in the 2012 prophecy! I think it was also you who wrote that we are living in exciting times! I was just thinking about that before I read your post. That is synchronicity. I agree absolutely though that there is still too much negative energy in this world and that this is blocking our spiritual gifts. However, I also think that this could change quite rapidly. Sometimes I do not think that the year 2012 for a shift in human consciousness is unlikely, sometimes I think it is highly likely. |
Quote:
Firstly, if this turns out to be a double-post, sorry but my last reply came straight in after your's peteyzen. There are countless concepts as to the workings of the world, which I think most people struggle with weighing-up simply because of this fact! Regardless, I agree with you that these discussions are philosophical debates but listen because this is KEY. The more that people keep communicating and keep discussing, the closer we will all be to different truths. I have only attended this forum for a few weeks yet the more I discuss AND listen, the more I feel that I am learning TRUTHS. However, peteyzen, to say that none of us actually bloody know anything is a misconception. Human beings know many things. The only thing stopping us from learning certain truths is our lack of spiritual discipline and an inability to listen to each other. |
Quote:
Hi again Kundalini, That sounds like a very interesting book, is this Lord Kumeka a being that she communicates with from "the other side" ? I think that it's definately possible that some of us have lived in atlantis seeing as though it's almost fact now that we ourselves have lived many times before, going by records & books by many hypnotherapists. I love sychronicity, it makes me smile every time :smile:. I will definately look that book up, another book you may find to be of interest is, "secrets & mysteries of the world" by Sylvia Browne, she talks about Atlantis & relays information from her spirit guides about how highly technologically advanced the Atlanteans were, which ultimately led to their demise, & aparently they were all between 7 & 12 feet tall, pretty cool. I don't think it's coincidence, that I also think that a shift in consciousness could happen very quickly & I too have a hunch something special is about to come about in the not too distant future in 2012, thats not to say I'm getting my hopes up, but it's exciting to think about anyways & quite frankly theres something about that subject of 2012 that just keeps popping up on my radar that seems too hard to doubt. Theres just something in me that wont let me doubt its truth. Blessings:smile: |
Yes, Lord Kumeka is 'kind of' from the 'other side'. I'm not sure where he's from actually!
I have not read that particular book by Slyvia Browne. I have read many of her other books though ( The Other Side And Back, Book Of Dreams etc ) and I find her work interesting. Whilst I am a believer in many things, I know that I would like to see all of these top mediums working together instead of all releasing separate books. I do not see why they do not as this would promote co-operation and solidarity. Then again, it may just be that it is practicably inconvienient for them. I would like to see a shift in consciousness in 2012 but the most important thing is that I and you, as individual's, have shifts in consciousness as this will benefit the whole, do you understand what I mean? I believe it was Glorymist in another thread who said,' we would just be using things as an excuse for other people to do things for us' ( or something like that ). |
Quote:
Yes I understand what you mean, but, in my experience, things of this nature can't really be forced. Even though I feel I cannot fail my journey & awakening is inevitable at some time for me, I still continue to go through slumps & ruts like most, but each time I do, I learn something I would not have, had I not gone through the slump. I just trust in the force that is guiding me no matter what the experience. I think the main reason why they dont all work together as authors is because it is fairly rare you will find 2 people with the same belief systems & if they were all to co-author a book, their may be many conflincting opinions. I know Wayne Dyer & Deepak Chopra have done a book together though. I listen to hayhouse radio all the time & every month I think they have something called a "you can do it conference" & there are alot of popular teachers among the gathering, such as: Sylvia Browne,Wayne Dyer,Summer Mcstravick,John Holland & heaps more. They all have there own radio shows & I listen to HEAPS of them, you can download past shows from hayhouseradio.com wich I do, it really is worth the listen & it's free. You know sometimes you just don't feel like reading, I just wack on the headphones & let them throw some ideas in the air for me to contemplate, it's pretty cool. If you're interested I would recommend you listen to: Sonia Choquette, John Holland, Wayne Dyer, Venus Andrecht, & Sylvia Browne are my favourites. Worth a gander anyway :smile: |
Very interesting reply.
I understand what you mean about these things cannot be forced but is that really so? With the free will that human beings are granted, we can FORCE ourselves should we be willing to do so. This is what I meant, in a sense. I understand too about the conflicting opinions between authors of such books. Deepak Chopra, I read his SynchroDestiny book. Excellent and detailed outlook on things. hayhouseradio.com sounds interesting too and if I find the time I shall tune in and drop out! Seriously though, it could be 2012 is a self-fulfilling prophecy or it could just be a prophecy. I guess one would never really know about this if the shift in consciousness were to come about. I have read some interesting theories though. I have read an article by Wayne Dyer which was posted by somebody on these forums and his reasoning regarding the laws of the universe appeal to me. It may have been you 8-infinite-8 who posted it. Thanks for reading, Kundalini. |
8-infinite-8 - - your answer surprises me. And - - since I am just getting back to it now - - and see there have been a number of posts since you replied to me - - I'll start back at that reply to me - - and see where we go from there.
It is surprising to me how the world today lives so much on false assumption. It amazes me how a person who knows nothing about another - - can just flat come out and say - - "you believe or know this or that - - or do not know this or that." I mean - - common courtesy would suggest that a person ASKS first - - before drawing such conclusions. You state that I do not know why we exist. Please - - and I am asking nicely - - please understand that statement of yours to be your assumption. And - - I will also add this - - if you asked why we exist - - and I told you - - and you disputed it - - that would have *nothing* to do with its actual validity or not. It would only show your acceptance level of it. This is not the first time I have run into this. Other people make so many claims - - such as - - "No one knows this - - " or "No one can understand that - - " and etc. If that were the case - - the entire purpose / nature of the Path would only be an exercise in futility. There are a couple of things you seem to overlook. One - - if you make such a statement - - to me - - or anyone else - - it is very obvious that you will NOT find out from them - - or from Life - - the "reason" why we exist. Attitude and expectation have a LOT to do with what one realizes in any particular lifetime. Two - - there "will" be no "evidence" as far as "proving" anything of a truly spiritual nature. The physical / psychic world understanding of what is - - cannot prove spiritual existence. If you wait for "evidence" - - as does so many others so this is NOT a criticism here - - but you will wait - - "forever." Third - - you didn't "say" - - silence as opposed to music. You talked of silence. I addressed - - silence. The fact that there is Divine Music in IT all is another facet altogether. To try and bring them together so you can use one to negate the other is - - um - - "odd." But - - common. :-> To say the the perceptions of the human mind / human state of consciousness is limited - - is quite obvious. But - - what about the perceptions of Soul ?? Since that is indeed what we are - - by any name you wish to call It - - and one can most definitely learn to perceive of and thru Soul Itself - - which would be the Real Self - - then I would not be talking about the human state of consciousness now, would I ?? If you ask me can I / do I know and understand from the level of Soul - - I will not say - - for the reasons addressed above. Mostly - - you wouldn't believe me - - so why say so. I guess my whole point is - - and I mean this in a gentle way - - and if you can accept it - - that is the way I wrote this entry for I mean no harsh criticism or ill intent - - my point is that if yo close so many doors - - you do just that. You close - - doors. You only make the Path longer. Most everyone does this - - without a doubt. The closing of doors and making the Path longer than it needs to be. But - - feel fortunate in that this has just been pointed out to you - - and in the kind understanding that this is just a part of the entire process. What you do NOW - - is up to you. It is not up to anyone else. You can continue to say - - "You don't know this - - " or that "These things do not do this or that - - " or that "There is no evidence and I'm not going to believe until there is - - " - - or whatever. There is an old saying - - "Only the brave and the adventurous know God." Consider that when you consider what I have just said - - and what the underlying implications might be. I truly mean no disrespect or anger here. None. I always thought your other entries to be quite profound and rather deep. Your reply to me was - - as I said - - surprising. I wish you well. |
Good Grief ! ! Then I scroll up and find out that Kundalini basically told you the same thing ! ! But then your reply to Kundalini - - was that "we" are meant to be limited. If you keep in mind that there actually is a "we" within each individual - - and that the lower world facets of body / emotions / and mind are indeed limited - - but that Soul is not - - if yo keep these straight - - then you have resolved your own dilemma. A part of "we" - - is limited. A part of "we" - - is most definitely not.
I have been promoting the whole concept of the "school room" for a long time. It is *not* my concept. The *world* will not get much better. But - - YOU - - can. Don't wait for the world to catch up to certain levels of awareness before you give yourself permission to accept "evidence." Move forward on your own. If you believe in manifestation - - and then claim that "it's not supposed to get any better" - - um - - what are you telling yourself there ?? Let the world / school room be what it is. YOU - - move on. Be bold / adventurous. Peteyzen - - one of the HUGE facets to the whole concept of maya - - and why this world is illusion - - and why it all just doesn't seem to get better either overall or individually - - is because the inner controls the outer. The outer world is brought on by what we believe inside. THAT is the reality to which all adheres to - - whether they know it or not. And - - since few of us have any real self-discipline to take charge of the inner world - - the old patterns continue creating the outer, illusionary manifestations of our own beliefs. The whole bit about us knowing *nothing* - - just leads many to take even LESS charge of their inner world - - only to the extent that they force their way into Silence. Then - - what is going to happen to their outer world ?? Do they expect it to just disappear ?? The old patterns are still there ! ! Still in existence. The fact that we deny that they control us means nothing ! ! The fact that we stick our head in the sand and then claim that the sand doesn't exist - - is - - sad ! ! And SO many are doing that these days. You and I have talked a bit about this. Kundalini - - I am beginning to really like you ! ! :-> But - - you too - - remember that nothing needs to "block OUR spiritual gifts." Just do not let the negativity block YOURS. Again - - let the world be what it is. Stand strongly in the center and let the rest swirl around you. I am not going to address the books / authors you brought up. If they fulfill you - - live their beliefs. If you need to move beyond them - - then the bold adventure continues. |
Quote:
Well Glorymist, I find that alot of what you have written is VERY condascending in parts & actually very contradicting also. I've never read an essay on why I'm wrong, haha, quite odd really. I'm not even going to mention where you were wrong because I don't feel the need to defend anything I've said, because no one is perfect & what I've said is ALL up for interepretation, you interperpret it how you wish. I would ask that you be so critical of your self as you are of others also. To give you a brief discription of my opinion, I think your primary statement was in itself a "limited" perspective in that, It is a possibility that silence was created & your statement about that was very blunt & not really open for discussion, & the fact it was directed at me, was as if you were making me wrong, but, I guess that could of been interpreted the wrong way also. I'm not one for focusing much on making myself superior to others so thats all I'm going to say, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm being contradicting but, there's just too much there to process so this is just a brief summary on the vibe I got. I like to focus on the interesting stuff, not on why I'm wrong. Blessings:smile: |
Quote:
Hi Kundalini , Indeed i know what you mean,tis interesting. I think what I meant by saying "these things cannot be forced" is at times I dont feel like reading spiritual books & I just can't be bothered & I just sort of let my self get almost out of control in a way, not too bad, but i feel at times I need to release some emotions so I can then rejuvinate & accentuate, even, the divinity in me. It could even be this stage of spiritual development, Im not sure, but I think there is a part of me that is making decisions that are not on a conscious level, for my own good. So i guess my proposal is that even when you think you're in control of yourself (emotions/thoughts), you're still being controlled by a higher part of your self, that is still your free will, but you're just not conscious of it. So that way, no matter what you do, you're doing it for a reason because you're still making the decision sub-consciously . I like to believe this is true, Does that make sense? Blessings |
Hi folks, in reply to both kundalini and glory, I would say just this.and please understand that I believe in maya, god, the benefits of spiritual practice the end goal of the human condition etc.,
Very few people however can really do anything spiritual, ( by that I mean an action beyond what is achievable physically)the odd clairvoyant is quite capable, but for most thier abilities are clouded, it is not clear. One or two healers have some success but even that is unpredictable. There are stories, oh yes wonderful stories, of great masters and their abilities and we thrive on them , hoping that one day some of this stuff will happen to us. Just because a teaacher can teach you to leave your body does not neccesarily mean that everything else they teach you is exactly right. I can teach someone to log on to a computer, it does not make me Bill gates, if you know what I mean. But all too many folks on this site are quick to criticise other opinions and dash peoples beliefs when in truth, we do not know in actuality what the truth is, and as I mentioned above everything is ` allegedly` being viewed through the illusion of maya. So all I was trying to say was chill folks, we know nothing for sure.and show some respect for others views you may not be right. That doesn`t apply to me obviously! I have it all sewn up. Love light and laugh folks. |
Quote:
Hi peteyzen, I do not understand why you feel your religious beliefs have been attacked or your opinion criticised. I find it amazing that religious followers will spout their beliefs and then should anyone else say anything at all that may be in contradiction of their beliefs, they suddenly start to say things like 'all too many folks are quick to criticise when in truth we do not actually know anything'. Well, why claim to then, if that is the attitude that you are going to take??? Oh and one more thing. Sorry, but the more people that keep making excuses as to why we aren't capable of doing this or why we aren't capable of doing that, are just limiting their own perceptions. That's all I have to say. |
Hey Kundalini,
you are right that we limit our access to SELF by holding limiting beliefs - anything is possible. I am curious though - for someone who understands the law of attraction, your posts sometimes seem angry and you know what that attracts? |
Quote:
Lol, you are very perceptive my friend. Now understand this and I know you will. I KNOW many things, like a lot of people do but that does not mean to say that I can always adhere to that knowing. As I have said before, it takes a lot of 'spiritual discipline'. I don't want to sound angry either but I am attempting to let people realise things for themselves by telling them what I KNOW. The thing is, Peteyzen and no disrespect to him/her has posted that 'we actually don't know anything'. I find that is a fallacy and I am disputing that statement. Also, peteyzen has said well, these 'religious' people have belief systems etc. but then those very same people when told something different to their beliefs then accuse that person of criticising and then state 'that humans do not actually know anything'. Not knowing anything is not indicative of a strong belief system and is no basis for it. So I felt obliged to dispute that. |
8-infinite-8 - - Can you read those posts with a viewpoint other than seeing what was written as being condescending / criticial / contradicting / wrong ??
Can you do that ?? Because nothing was written with that viewpoint / additude in mind or heart. If you cannot - - well - - there are many ways we can choose to overlook what is told to us. Especially when the whole thing was based on an assumption that you made that was false. Then - - I guess - - that it is wrong of me to point that out. HeH Especially when I clearly stated that I was offering all in a "nice" way. And - - I was. The whole issue of false assumptions is rampant these days. I run into it all the time. I would bet you do too. Much of what I said was addressing the issue itself - - rather than your personal / specific use of it. And - - what I said - - was true - - and I would say it to anyone else who made such claims - - and have. Some - - listen - - and grow - - and then share with me - - and I grow. Others - - push it all away. It is their choice. So - - read what I earlier wrote as you wish. Much of the point of it all was - - if you wish to make assumptions about someone else - - it's nice to check on the facts you are going to use to make such assumptions first. But I will admit - - the world does NOT promote such foresight. The world - - the media - - most anyone - - seems to promote - - hurl first, find out if you were correct later. I didn't force you to make the accusations you did - - and - - I still do not hold ill feelings or any grudge towards you. Nor any criticism. It is a situation all can learn from - - if willing. |
Before we are born to this place we know everything it is gods will that we forget so that we can re-member who we are and where we came from and he gives us free will to find our way back to the whole the one god...
|
every body who reads these forums are spiritualy aware... everybody.....and dont think just because you dont know much that you are out of favour with god you are his most favourite because you question your existance you question who and what you are and where you came from...you are learning to remember what you are we are all god we are all one ...
|
Quote:
Hi Glorymist, I guess what I mean is, when I see a product of the ego directed at me in any way it brings out the ego in me. Therefore I try not to subject myself to things of that material. That is how I interpreted it & I chose to interpret it, because I believe in my truth & perceptions. So if i was to read that whole thing again about why I'm wrong, tell me, what is the use? It does not worry me if I'm wrong, I just don't know what you want me to understand. You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink it my friend. If all of what you have said is your truth, Glory mist, why must you defend it, if you know it to be true ? Everyone has an Ego, in my experience of life. And I apoligize if it has been un-toward to you in any way, for it is of course, un-intentional. Kind regards. |
Hi kundalini
I am not religious in any way shape or form. I do have beliefs, as do you, I hold the simple truth however that I might well be wrong. I also know a lot, this knowledge means nothing my friend, because everybody else knows a great deal as well, it doesn`t mean that any of us are right. It does however seem rather odd that we cross swords all too often when nobody really knows if they are right. I`m sorry if my opinions on this upset you, it is how I feel though, however having repeated this too many times now I shall shut up. And leave you with my sincere apologies |
Quote:
peteyzen, I do not feel upset by your opinions but I am curious as to why you feel your opinions have so little worth for surely you must feel that way, if when your beliefs are challenged you say things like 'We don't know anything'. Why is it so many human beings will say they do not know anything? I know that you would say I am being egotistical to say otherwise but BELIEVE me, I am not. I am just not going to allow myself to think I do not know anything when I know that I do. Also, I do not feel we are crossing swords. You have took that stance. I simply debated a statement of yours and then asked some very pertinent questions. Thanks for reading, Kundalini. |
8-infinity-8 - - let's take a look at what happened. It all started by you making a false assumption about me. Now - - I tried to point that out to you and give you a quick overview as to the concept and principle what drawing false assumptions are not a good idea. You come back with the promoted idea that because I didn't necessarily like false assumptions directed to me - - that I was coming back at you out of ego.
Does that quite - - um - - ring true ?? I didn't ask you to say what you did. You made a fasle assumption - - it was wrong - - I simply pointed that out to you - - and you went trying to make it my doing. Why would I wish you to read it again ?? To learn ! ! To learn that your first perception can be wrong. As can mine. As can most everyone's. Were you wrong ?? Yes - - in the sense that you said something you probably shouldn't have. That's all ! ! Now - - you spend the time justifying yourself - - and pointing your finger at me. In other words - - if someone simply shows you how you were clearly wrong - - and how you could benefit by learning a quick and simple lesson - - the pointing of that out to you - - that is ego ?? Or is it a handy way out ?? And once again - - this is NOT being written in anger. If I didn't point this out to you again - - you would miss out on a very valuable lesson to be learned - - if you wish to learn it. Even good ol' Dr. Phil says - - "You cannot change what you do not acknowledge." And - - in this case - - that's true. You can claim that I was coming at you out of ego and anything else that you wish - - and get all flipped out about someone saying that you were wrong (when you were) - - but in the end - - all I wanted to point out to you - - is that it is very ingenuous of anyone to draw false assumptions about anyone - - anywhere. Ask first. Then you can base any accusations / assumptions on a bit more material than what you didn;t have before. Very simple. But to me - - it looks like - - you wish to find a way to duck out of this. Make it my fault. My doing. I don't defend - - anything. I simply point out a lesson you could learn. You seem to want to be right - - more than be honest. Yes - - there are lots of people who will believe that throwing false assumptions around is just fine. To them - - what I said - - I would definitely be wrong. I would definitely be trying to show them that false assumptions are high inaccuracies and would be promoting my truth in that sense. From what you said in your reply - - I have to assume (and yes - - I am using the words but based on what you have said and the way you reacted) that that above is indeed what you believe. That it IS all right to falsely assume something about someone - - and to express it - - and when that is pointed out - - it is the other person's fault for pointing out the false assumption. You apologize for nothing - - until you own what you did. That is true of and for anyone. How easily all of this could hae been sidestepped if you simply would have said - - "Hmmm. Guess I did assume something that I shouldn't have. I'll have to watch that." Or - - versions thereof. But to defend yourself by pointing your finger back at me - - shows a very different picture of who 8-infinity-8 is. I would be cheating you of any lesson you could learn if I did not point this out to you - - tho I do know that pointing this out to you smacks in the face of today's "victim" role that everyone loves to retreat to. The choice - - is still - - up to you. |
I don't really care enough to read all that Glorymist, so just let it go.
I'm not sure what your motive is & to write that much, you must have a strong motive for some reason, so If you can tell me in one line what you want me to do, maybe I'll consider it, but I'm not reading 2000 words on something that does'nt interest me. You analyze stuff way too much my friend. blessings |
8-intinite-8 - -
You want it simple ?? I'll give it to you very simply. 1) - - it is YOUR lesson. You SHOULD want to take an interest in it. 2) - - Take the responsibility for setting this in motion. It was YOUR false statement that set it off. 3) - - put some effort into learning about yourself. How incredible to insinuate - - don't make me read all of that. I don't want to find out about myself. You have an incredibly versatile list of reasons why NOT to find out about yourself - - why NOT to look. Is it analysis that I am "caught up in" ?? Or - - awareness. I do not blame you for wanting to "let it go." It is obvious that the actual lesson involved is MUCH less than your resistance to even look. |
this may be a debate, but it reads like an argument. what if all of us are wrong:)
---stay positive and love your life |
Blair - - if all of us are wrong - - then the Path would be a lesson in endless futility.
Have you ever heard the old story about the way many of our lessons come about to us ?? At first - - they come as gentle taps. When we refuse to pay attention - - LIFE has to get us to take notice with greater and greate urgency until the proverbial piano is dropped on our head. 8-in-8 is a perfect example of this. At first - - I just told him what he had done, gave him some background, and suggested he consider the lesson. From that point on - - he has been pushing everything away - - and the piano is coming downward. I won't be the one to drop it. And he won't remember this when it does. There is no argument. One - - is refusing to learn a lesson. The other is challenging the old saying of "One must be willing to learn, to learn." 8-in-8 refuses to even look at the lesson involved - - which to me - - is absolutely astounding. He is truly unique in all the people I have run across in all my online travels. He is the only person I have ever found that absolutely refuses to even LOOK - - because it's too much trouble to read what was said. There is a reason for that - - and the reason is not number of words. It is fear of truly looking at Self. Pure and simple. 8-infinity-8 - - if you read this - - and I doubt if you will because there are too many words - - but you - - out of all people that I know online - - are a true living example of the old saying - - "The stuff you do not like is most probably the stuff you need the most." |
With Endless Posibilities - Is It Not possible That All Of Us Are Wrong? I Personally Believe That Each Of Us do Have Parts Of Truths In Our Belief Systems. but, I Acknowledge That I Could Possibly Be Wrong About That. Our Quest Could Be "exercise" For The "afterlife", Possibly. And We Could Still Be Wrong In Our Presumptions. Being Wrong Wouldnt Neccesarily Be Futile. "god" May Be Pleased With The ,possible, Futile Quest Of This Life, In That We did seek. There Is The Possibility That The Ascension We Thirst For Is Of A Totally Different And Astounding Nature From Which We Presume. Dreamer Said "anything Is Possible". If Anything Is In Fact Possible, We All May Be Wrong.
Anyway, I Agree With Kundalini: Discussion And Reasoning Together Does Seem To Help To "boil Off The Water". In That I Mean, The More We Discuss And Reason The More We Can Hammer Down Truth And Possibly Learn To Disregaurd What Is Turning Out To Be "not So Much Truth". Councious Shift Does Appear To Be At Hand. This Earth Environment Is Deffinatley Boiling Hard Now (sorry, Another Boiling Analogy). Something Must Happen When The Proverbial **** Hits The Fan. There Seems To Be A Massive Struggle Between The Light And Dark (positive Energy Will Prevail)on This Planet. I Think Most People Can Agree That Somthing Huge Is At Hand. And Finally, Our Singular, But Especially, Collective Energy(evereything Is Energy) (soul, Aura, Etc.) is limitless In Its Infinite Possibilty And Potential. We Must "brave" The Unknown. We Must Fearlessly Continue On With The Truths We Have Discovered. We Must Continue To Wade Through Our Uncertainties On The Path To Understanding And Enlightenment. That Is , Of Course, Unless Im Wrong:>) |
Quote:
Hi Glorymist, What if i didn't learn about myself ? would that make me less of a person if i did not? You couldnt possibly know if I do or do not. It seems to me you think you know why I exist, more than I do, lol. "Hypothetically", What if I dont want to find out about myself ? I dont have to do anything I don't want to do, that is my free will, given to me by God, (in my experience). "Hypothetically", Maybe I'm not meant to learn about my self yet, how are you to know? If you were "caught up" in awareness, then you would know, that you can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink it, as i have said. Thankyou for the advice Glorymist, but i choose not to use it, for I doubt the credabiliy of it's source, that is my free will. Blessings:smile: All beliefs are subject to death, in-form-ation exists only in form. Knowledge needs no, in-form-ation, for it is already knowledge, therefore it already knows. maybe. who knows ? |
Quote:
I agree Blair2be, it most definatelyis a possibility that we're all wrong, or maybe it's not a possibility lol :smile I also agree with what you say about "something huge is at hand". I don't know if you have heardabout the mayan calander prophecy & the theories surrounding it, but i think you'll find the following site very interesting, but then again, I might be wrong :smile: http://www.2012.com.au This 2012 thing has been coming up everywhere for me & other people I know with the same interests, theres just something synchronised about it that keeps popping up. Blessings |
Quote:
If we could all be wrong, we could all know nothing , which means all the arguments are pointless. but then so is discussing them so chatting on this site and putting up posts is pointless which is what I`m doing now!!!!!!!! oops seem to have backed myself into a corner, BUGGER. still love you all tho. even the most knowledgeable should hold onto the possibility that the knowledge which they weild could be wrong, in this understanding a certain humility is created, with humility great spiritual leaps can be made, without it stagnation occurs or so I`m told He he! |
There is one thing I can be certain of, it's what makes this no-thing a something and conversley this something a nothing. It is undefinable and elusive, it works without label and manifests in every labelled "thing" but you can be certain of it - I AM (whatever).
To be certain about this is to be your SELF. To know this is to find the balance between humility and over confidence with the realisation that there can be no such thing, how can you be humble to yourself or over confident to yourself? Try standing in a room alone and be humble or arrogant. Humility and arrogance depend upon the illusion of seperation to work, to see your true SELF is to recognise the unity in all things. I am you and you are me and we are both different faces of the one SELF. This is a play put on for the benifit of one, played out by one and to ones SELF. You are one. |
Quote:
Yes okay but with this line of thinking it seems we are all entering a spiritual cul-de-sac so to speak. I think people should ACCEPT that they could be wrong but if one continues with this thinking, then only stagnation would occur. With that way of thinking, how can motivation be born or inspiration inspire? Is it possible that we are all one mind and if that is the case, then some parts of us are not thinking correctly while other parts are? Maybe a goal to aspire to, is to listen to certain parts of us and to 'correct' other parts of us. That would fit in with the theme of 'collective consciousness', would it not? Either way, declaring that we are all wrong is fearful thinking at it's worst. It is not borne of love, it is based on fear. Think about that. Now, is what I am saying right, or is it wrong? Remember though, I only ask to see if you have this level of comprehension. I already know what I believe. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 03:51 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums