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-   -   Mind reflecting on itself. (https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=121261)

Iamit 10-03-2018 11:37 PM

Mind reflecting on itself.
 
What is the nature, capability, function, and purpose of Mind as the servant of the person it serves? I realize that is asking mind to reflect on itself in that capacity. That may not be a question mind often asks itself but it may be interesting to know what it thinks about itself in that capacity:)

The mind of Moondance:) has offered something on this under his recent thread "The Natural State". What do other minds have to say about 'themselves' in that capacity?:)

All pronouns accepted as mind referring to itself.

:)

davidsun 11-03-2018 12:27 AM

I personally regard and so think of 'mind' as being a 'faculty' or 'power', hence often speak of it as ab 'attribute', of THAT which is called 'Brahman' and 'God'. Quoting from the book I wrote:
Everybody (or 'form') in existence is spiritually motivated by a mindfully discriminating intrinsic potency. This (said potency) was termed ‘atman’ or ‘soul’ by sages of old, who recognized everyone and everything as an immediate expression of the universally present, intelligently creative essence which they understood to be the real meaning of ‘Brahman’ and ‘God’.
From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind )
"The mind is a set of cognitive faculties including consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, language and memory. It is usually defined as the faculty of an entity's thoughts and consciousness. It holds the power of imagination, recognition, and appreciation, and is responsible for processing feelings and emotions, resulting in attitudes and actions.

There is a lengthy tradition in philosophy, religion, psychology, and cognitive science about what constitutes a mind and what are its distinguishing properties.

One open question regarding the nature of the mind is the mind–body problem, which investigates the relation of the mind to the physical brain and nervous system. Older viewpoints included dualism and idealism, which considered the mind somehow non-physical. Modern views views often center around physicalism and functionalism, which hold that the mind is roughly identical with the brain or reducible to physical phenomena such as neuronal activity, though dualism and idealism continue to have many supporters. Another question concerns which types of beings are capable of having minds. For example, whether mind is exclusive to humans, possessed also by some or all animals, by all living things, whether it is a strictly definable characteristic at all, or whether mind can also be a property of some types of human-made machines.

Whatever its nature, it is generally agreed that mind is that which enables a being to have subjective awareness and intentionality towards their environment, to perceive and respond to stimuli with some kind of agency, and to have consciousness, including thinking and feeling.[citation needed]

The concept of mind is understood in many different ways by many different cultural and religious traditions. Some see mind as a property exclusive to humans whereas others ascribe properties of mind to non-living entities (e.g. panpsychism and animism), to animals and to deities. Some of the earliest recorded speculations linked mind (sometimes described as identical with soul or spirit) to theories concerning both life after death, and cosmological and natural order, for example in the doctrines of Zoroaster, the Buddha, Plato, Aristotle, and other ancient Greek, Indian and, later, Islamic and medieval European philosophers.

Important philosophers of mind include Plato, Descartes, Leibniz, Locke, Berkeley, Hume, Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Searle, Dennett, Fodor, Nagel, and Chalmers. Psychologists such as Freud and James, and computer scientists such as Turing and Putnam developed influential theories about the nature of the mind. The possibility of non-human minds is explored in the field of artificial intelligence, which works closely in relation with cybernetics and information theory to understand the ways in which information processing by nonbiological machines is comparable or different to mental phenomena in the human mind.

The mind is also portrayed as the stream of consciousness where sense impressions and mental phenomena are constantly changing.

***

Definitions

The attributes that make up the mind is debated. Some psychologists argue that only the "higher" intellectual functions constitute mind, particularly reason and memory. In this view the emotions — love, hate, fear, and joy — are more primitive or subjective in nature and should be seen as different from the mind as such. Others argue that various rational and emotional states cannot be so separated, that they are of the same nature and origin, and should therefore be considered all part of it as mind.

In popular usage, mind is frequently synonymous with thought: the private conversation with ourselves that we carry on "inside our heads." Thus we "make up our minds," "change our minds" or are "of two minds" about something. One of the key attributes of the mind in this sense is that it is a private sphere to which no one but the owner has access. No one else can "know our mind." They can only interpret what we consciously or unconsciously communicate."
There's more there, of course.

'Where' are you trying to go (i.e. what 'issue' are your trying to resolve) by way of this 'collection' of 'views', Iamit?

davidsun 11-03-2018 01:35 AM

And then there's this, from The Bhagavad Gita::

"Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intellect and personality; this is the eightfold division of My Manifested Nature. This is My inferior Nature; but distinct from this, O*Valiant One, know thou that my Superior Nature is the very Life which sustains the universe."

Iamit 11-03-2018 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsun
I personally regard and so think of 'mind' as being a 'faculty' or 'power', hence often speak of it as ab 'attribute', of THAT which is called 'Brahman' and 'God'. Quoting from the book I wrote:
Everybody (or 'form') in existence is spiritually motivated by a mindfully discriminating intrinsic potency. This (said potency) was termed ‘atman’ or ‘soul’ by sages of old, who recognized everyone and everything as an immediate expression of the universally present, intelligently creative essence which they understood to be the real meaning of ‘Brahman’ and ‘God’.
From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind )
"The mind is a set of cognitive faculties including consciousness, perception, thinking, judgement, language and memory. It is usually defined as the faculty of an entity's thoughts and consciousness. It holds the power of imagination, recognition, and appreciation, and is responsible for processing feelings and emotions, resulting in attitudes and actions.

There is a lengthy tradition in philosophy, religion, psychology, and cognitive science about what constitutes a mind and what are its distinguishing properties.

One open question regarding the nature of the mind is the mind–body problem, which investigates the relation of the mind to the physical brain and nervous system. Older viewpoints included dualism and idealism, which considered the mind somehow non-physical. Modern views views often center around physicalism and functionalism, which hold that the mind is roughly identical with the brain or reducible to physical phenomena such as neuronal activity, though dualism and idealism continue to have many supporters. Another question concerns which types of beings are capable of having minds. For example, whether mind is exclusive to humans, possessed also by some or all animals, by all living things, whether it is a strictly definable characteristic at all, or whether mind can also be a property of some types of human-made machines.

Whatever its nature, it is generally agreed that mind is that which enables a being to have subjective awareness and intentionality towards their environment, to perceive and respond to stimuli with some kind of agency, and to have consciousness, including thinking and feeling.[citation needed]

The concept of mind is understood in many different ways by many different cultural and religious traditions. Some see mind as a property exclusive to humans whereas others ascribe properties of mind to non-living entities (e.g. panpsychism and animism), to animals and to deities. Some of the earliest recorded speculations linked mind (sometimes described as identical with soul or spirit) to theories concerning both life after death, and cosmological and natural order, for example in the doctrines of Zoroaster, the Buddha, Plato, Aristotle, and other ancient Greek, Indian and, later, Islamic and medieval European philosophers.

Important philosophers of mind include Plato, Descartes, Leibniz, Locke, Berkeley, Hume, Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Searle, Dennett, Fodor, Nagel, and Chalmers. Psychologists such as Freud and James, and computer scientists such as Turing and Putnam developed influential theories about the nature of the mind. The possibility of non-human minds is explored in the field of artificial intelligence, which works closely in relation with cybernetics and information theory to understand the ways in which information processing by nonbiological machines is comparable or different to mental phenomena in the human mind.

The mind is also portrayed as the stream of consciousness where sense impressions and mental phenomena are constantly changing.

***

Definitions

The attributes that make up the mind is debated. Some psychologists argue that only the "higher" intellectual functions constitute mind, particularly reason and memory. In this view the emotions — love, hate, fear, and joy — are more primitive or subjective in nature and should be seen as different from the mind as such. Others argue that various rational and emotional states cannot be so separated, that they are of the same nature and origin, and should therefore be considered all part of it as mind.

In popular usage, mind is frequently synonymous with thought: the private conversation with ourselves that we carry on "inside our heads." Thus we "make up our minds," "change our minds" or are "of two minds" about something. One of the key attributes of the mind in this sense is that it is a private sphere to which no one but the owner has access. No one else can "know our mind." They can only interpret what we consciously or unconsciously communicate."
There's more there, of course.

'Where' are you trying to go (i.e. what 'issue' are your trying to resolve) by way of this 'collection' of 'views', Iamit?



Excellant David, thanks for finding and posting that. So many examples of mind reflecting on itself leaving little doubt that it has an astonishing, complex, capacity.

After the end of the search for connection, following a resonance with All is One, there can follow an intense focus on what was involved in such a happening. If it is mind that ends the search, demonising it, which happens in so much that is offered to seekers (sending them off on long effots to subdue the mind) is unhelpful. An open mind would be more helpful that includes the possibility that it is mind that conducts and ends the search as it does when resolving other discomforts.

Rather than turning mind on itself as the enemy, an impossible situation for the mind to resolve without endangering the organism/driving itself mad, allow the mind to conclude the search, find the solution that suits the character it constructed, and resonate with (select) it.

davidsun 11-03-2018 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamit
After the end of the search for connection, following a resonance with All is One, there can follow an intense focus on what was involved in such a happening. If it is mind that ends the search, demonising it, which happens in so much that is offered to seekers (sending them off on long effots to subdue the mind) is unhelpful. An open mind would be more helpful that includes the possibility that it is mind that conducts and ends the search as it does when resolving other discomforts.

Rather than turning mind on itself as the enemy, an impossible situation for the mind to resolve without endangering the organism/driving itself mad, allow the mind to conclude the search, find the solution that suits the character it constructed, and resonate with (select) it.

Ring-a-ding-a-ding!
Woohoo!!
IamU-n-URme-n-WeR1-living-as-many-2gether!!!
:biggrin:

Without MIND, I cood n wood na hv written n U cood n wood na have read-o-nated :smile: wth wht I wrote and U cood n wood na hv written n I cood n wood na have read-o-nated :smile: wth wht U did!

Without MIND, there wood neither be the creation-n-perception of THIS (click here) nor creation-n-perception of THAT (click here)

And no ones to LOVE and EnJOY IT ALL, much less MIND-FIGURE it OUT!

Brahman would then have no ears that 'hear' and no eyes that 'see'! :icon_sad:


davidsun 11-03-2018 02:39 PM

Or THIS (click here) or THAT (click here)

There is something to be 'learned' from the fact that, in their 'zeal' for being 'in touch with' what they think of (and so 'feel' as being) 'ultimate' Reality (As in "Allah hu Akbar" = "God is Great!!"; "Neti, Neti" = "I am not THIS and I am not THAT"), many 'fundamentalists' often 'shun' and, in extreme case, even aim to 'destroy' (i.e. 'annihilate') said Reality's 'artfully joyous' manifestations.

Just look at the Taliban's 'attitude' towards music, any kind of muse-ing actually - for example!

Methinks a 'perverse' kind of (Cain-like?) 'jealousy' may be operational in such cases. Truly talented/creative 'artists' won't feel 'at home' in that crowd.

Iamit 11-03-2018 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsun
Or THIS (click here) or THAT (click here)

There is something to be 'learned' from the fact that, in their 'zeal' for being 'in touch with' what they think of (and so 'feel' as being) 'ultimate' Reality (As in "Allah hu Akbar" = "God is Great!!"; "Neti, Neti" = "I am not THIS and I am not THAT"), many 'fundamentalists' often 'shun' and, in extreme case, even aim to 'destroy' (i.e. 'annihilate') said Reality's 'artfully joyous' manifestations.

Just look at the Taliban's 'attitude' towards music, any kind of muse-ing actually - for example!

Methinks a 'perverse' kind of (Cain-like?) 'jealousy' may be operational in such cases. Truly talented/creative 'artists' won't feel 'at home' in that crowd.


Indeed, or any that live and let live.

And yet Oneness manifests as ALL, equally the former as well as the latter. Maybe there is some balance being struck by mind on the infinate scale (which may not be apparant locally) without which there would be no magnificent manifestation/duality. In such a scenario it would never be why is this happening? but rather that this is how it must be for such a balance to be maintained.

From your knowledge of texts, is there any reference to such a balance? The Yin/Yang symbol and suchlike seem to suggest this. I have not studied the origins.

davidsun 11-03-2018 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamit
Indeed, or any that live and let live.

And yet Oneness manifests as ALL, equally the former as well as the latter. Maybe there is some balance being struck by mind on the infinite scale (which may not be apparent locally) without which there would be no magnificent manifestation/duality. In such a scenario it would never be why is this happening? but rather that this is how it must be for such a balance to be maintained.

From your knowledge of texts, is there any reference to such a balance? The Yin/Yang symbol and suchlike seem to suggest this. I have not studied the origins.

Balance between what and what? Not clear to me what you are 'seeing' and so asking about.

Without knowing that, it nevertheless occurs to me that the phenomenon of energy transmisson by way of propagating 'waves' wherein 'peaks' and 'troughs' (i.e. opposites?) 'balance' (in a sense) one another may serve as a model for whatever phenomenon you have in mind.

Alternating periods or 'seasons' of light and darkness, warmth and cold, etc. are the 'mechanism' which 'drives' the 'evolution' of higher and higher (for want of a better word) kinds of more-integrally-related Lifeforms for instance.

From Chapter 1 of the book I wrote:
On a transpersonal scale, as everyone contributes to the co-motion, waves of thought, feeling and behavior ripple and ricochet around the globe, cumulatively adding to the vibration of the platform on which we stand, building in resonance as they sweep through the race. At present in particular, with populations soaring and availability diminishing, these are approaching a crescendo of intensity. Those who are conscientious are becoming more loving and coordinated in the process; those who are selfish, more paranoid and alienated. Those who are hopeful are buoyantly choosing paths of constructive action; those without hope are sinking deeper into depression and degeneracy. Tension is mounting as people take sides; polarities of attitude and expectancy are reaching extremes.

We are approaching a snapping point. Ultimately, triggered by ecological breakdown, consequences will be cataclysmic. Depending on whether aligned with positive or negative trends, some will move higher up on Life’s evolutionary ladder, others will fall—our dilemma will be resolved by a massive catharsis.

Take heed, for what you now choose affects, for better or worse, what happens in the future, not only to you but also to those who you are most cogently involved with. Since you are an integral part of Life’s process, you are bound to move and be moved, one way or another, by current developments and ongoing themes.

But also take heart, if you are one who subscribes to what is good. As times of want alternate with times of plenty, the crises engendered, though painful and upsetting to go through, are on the whole very creative. Attributed to ‘the hand of God’ by some and to ‘natural selection’ by others, a process of culling then takes place which, far from being random, is positively discriminating and therefore, in final terms, constructive.

Individuals and groups that are reciprocal and sharing emerge ascendant, resonantly reinforced by one another, despite general shortage, overcoming their difficulties. Those that are unresponsive and unrelated atrophy in isolation; unless they change for the better, they weaken and fail eventually. Those that are antagonistic and oppositional fare worst of all; their energy depleted by friction and their momentum destroyed by clashes and collisions, their creative thrust is halted and reduced to nullity.

With every denouement, asynchronous and discordant elements are deleted, while more cooperative and coordinated embodiments proceed forth, the degree of harmonious integration increasing as each new stage succeeds.
You may be thinking and asking about something else entirely, however. Am just having fun sharing the thoughts your verbal vibes stimulate in the 'locus' of 'my' mind, Bro. :smile:

Iamit 13-03-2018 12:40 AM

Thanks for that David,

"Balance between what and what? Not clear to me what you are 'seeing' and so asking about".

Yes I see what you mean.

We experience different vibes with different spaces/people so we know such differences occur. I'm suggesting that all that arises in the manifestation has a frequency/vibration resulting in an overall vibrational state which needs to be maintained for there to be any manifestation/duality to appear at all, and it is something like that which Yin/Yang represents.

So the balance would be between what we regard as opposites. Dark as the opposite to light for example. There are scales of difference of course with, for example, light at one end and dark at the other with a whole range of shades in between so it is not as simple as opposites but I'm suggesting that each positon on such scales has its vibrational state which together make up an overall balance between light and dark and that this balance is present in any scale we can imagine. All scales together have an overall vibrational state on the infinate scale and is automatically maintained for there to be duality. It is that sort of thing that I am wondering if Yin/Yang represents. Is there any reference to suchlike in texts that you may have studied?

I hope that is enough clarification for you to respond to the question. I cant think of another way of putting it.

davidsun 13-03-2018 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamit
I hope that is enough clarification for you to respond to the question. I cant think of another way of putting it.

Yes, I get what you are thinking and looking for more information about. Intuitively, what you say makes sense, whether or not an actual 'vibration' (other than a 'thought', which may be thought :smile: of as a kind of 'vibration') is associated with said matter(s).

The only thing that came to mind in relation to what you call 'balance' is the idea of 'symmetry' - which has applications in many fields of knowledge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry may give you something to play with in this regard.


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