Native American Spirituality – Wannabees, Frauds and Shamanism
 

A very controversial subject matter to bring up - I know – that will stir up a lot of emotions, but once and for all, I would like to get to the bottom of this and hear sentiments from all sides and not just dance around this subject matter.

Very recently I watched a youtube interview with Rainbow Eagle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2qP3Ji6do

Who - by Al Carroll has been declared to be a fraud?
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index...14135#msg14135

Who in turn has been declared to be a fraud?
https://lookingbackwoman.wordpress.c...mmaking-buddy/

Who in turn has been declared a fraud …….. and so on ……..
So where is the truth in all of this, I wonder?


And why are Europeans so fascinated by Native Americans?
Is it because of our long lost European tribal Aboriginality (i.e. invasions by Near Eastern agriculturalists and Indo-Europeans)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbCar3aGadc

Or is it because of the Hollywood influence i.e. portrayal of Native Americans as the last true ‘Natives’ on Earth?
But how genuine is this portrayal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZBpn9asng


And why do people in general mix Native American Spirituality with Shamanism?
How true/right or wrong is this association?

You ask why Europeans are so Fascinated with Native Americans well I can only answer for myself.
I am welsh so I am a Celt as are the Irish and Scotish. a lot of Native people now have Celtic blood in them.
maybe people are looking at the Earth in different ways.they want to understand it more.
The celtic Nations and the Native Nations are very similar in a lot of respects.
But I have got Native blood in me,so maybe I see it more. my grandmother taught me a lot about my Native ways and I have always incorporated it in how I live. but like I said I can only answer for myself not for anyone else.


Namaste

Thank you Native spirit, I do hear what you are saying and also how you are saying it.

I also am proud and have got a soft spot for the Scottish – (originally Irish) favourite ancestor of mine.
A person, who supposedly escaped his enlisting in the Swedish army into the ‘back of the beyond’ woods of the indigenous Finnic (‘Russian’) wild side, taking to it like ‘a duck to water’.
So - nature connection – tick.

He also became the head of one of the biggest families in that area (everybody either became a descendant of or otherwise related to).

His son’s ingenious alternative ways, as in - inventions not only contributed and benefited the family, but in egalitarian fashion the whole village/tribe – thus they had a natural understanding how to act for the benefit of collective whole – tick.

Also some of my closest Oz-Aboriginal friends had a fiddler Irish grandfather who ventured deep into the ‘back of the beyond’ rainforests – took to it like ‘a duck to water’ and his very musical grandchildren - Aboriginal to the core however do have these really unique individual traits, everybody loves and celebrates.
Diversity - which in ‘non-dual spirituality’ you do celebrate as an enrichment to the whole.
Something which I was also brought up and conditioned to ‘see’ as my Reality.

Almost everyone in Australia has Irish blood in them. When the British colonised Australia they didn't have slaves like the U.S. they used Irish convicts instead.
As far as fraud in native American tradition/spirituality. It's probably no better and no worse than any other religion.
At the moment, internationally, the Catholic church probably leads the race in religions behaving badly. I wouldn't be getting too stressed out about a few charlatans.
Now a small Irish joke to end the post on.
What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish funeral. One less drunk.
Good luck and best wishes.

Ok. Alcohol abuse, Indigenous problems and Irish – tick
(This one I only know personally too well).

Why do you call Native American tradition a religion? I don't know - is it?
Would you call Aboriginal Australian Spirituality a religion?
(Indigenous Shamanism imo. is not a religion either, rather I would call it a ‘worldview’, 'reality orientation' or 'animism in action').

But have you ever! heard of a fake Australian Aboriginal or even a white Australian doing weekend workshops teaching Aboriginal Spirituality?!
I have not.

The only fraudulent claim I have ever heard of was about Marlo Morgan, an American author, who wrote her bestselling book the “Mutant Message Down Under”.
https://www.creativespirits.info/res...age-down-under
And if you have ever spent time in communities of the Central Desert – the book does not make much sense.

Or Shaunc - have you ever heard of people claiming Aboriginal Australian ancestry – when in reality they do not have it - the way white Americans, even African Americans do claim Native American ancestry?!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR_p6PdAIrI

The town I live in is approximately 10% aboriginal but no it's not in the central desert area.
Sure there's an alcohol/drug problem amongst indigenous peoples but if they're refused service then the shopkeeper can be charged under discrimination laws.
I honestly believe that if the alcohol/drug problem amongst indigenous peoples could be cured 90% of the other problems would go away like unemployment, jail, domestic violence, sex abuse, etc.
Unfortunately the cure must come from within their own communities.

I gather you are not a wanabee then Shaunc, claiming non-existent Aboriginal ancestry or pretending to be one by painting and feathering yourself up and doing the dances.
(Difficult to even imagine, isn’t it?)

But why do Americans and Europeans pretend to be Amerinds?
I did read the “Why do Danes practice powwow dancing and singing”, but I still don’t get it.
http://www.powwows.dk/eng/en/eng_why.html

Especially in the face of this everyday reality:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Euro...ife-in-Denmark

http://www.vestfilm.dk/inukwoman/afilm.html

Why the double standard?
So – sort of back to the original question – why are Europeans so fascinated by Native Americans over other Natives?
Why has 'Native American Spirituality' become a commodity?


I would wish there to be recognition and respect for ALL indigenous cultural identities and spiritual traditions, and also understanding what dispossession from land and family, loss of identity, heritage, culture and language and poor treatment does to people.

Never seen a Pow Wow, but here is one I would have liked not to have missed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vqlZJofo0

Powerful stuff – makes your hair stand on end.
But behind the spectacle of the performance - a heavier reality, something which the members talk about in the video at the end of this page:
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/fragment...d-social-media

For this - Thank You.

I really don't know why the European fascination with native Americans. My guess is that it's to do with Hollywood, but I'm only guessing. All cultures, even European prior to Christianity had their own forms of animism, shamanism, reverence towards nature. Whatever the correct terminology is.
You are correct that I've never heard of someone pretending to be an Australian aboriginal when they're not one, and even if there are a few cases of this happening they're certainly not anywhere near the same numbers as happen with native Americans and it wouldn't be a commercial enterprise like say a new book or self help type of workshop.

Native Americans hold onto a culture that Western Europe used to have but lost. I think part of our souls recognise the truth of Native American teachings and way of living without hurting the earth and it calls to us.

I’ve long been able to remember a previous life as a Native American so I’m interested in it for this reason.

NAFPS by Al Carroll, has nothing to do Native American People or are they qualified to protect us. We do not need their protection or do we want it. They are all about something else. Mainly bullying and control. Like Trump, Al pulls others down to promote himself. That what NAFPS is all about. Best to ignore them.

That statement (in bolded text) about Europeans is not exactly true.
Imo. the last Western hunter-gatherers up North have held onto the old ways the longest in Europe, hunter-gatherer practices and ‘beliefs’ still being relatively fresh in memory.

Something which I wrote about in this post:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...8&postcount=40

But I do agree with you that when Europeans have contact with (real) First Nations peoples or teachings, we can sometimes re-discover what has been buried, lost or repressed in our own cultures.

Then again the group does have a point as “cultural appropriation” is problematic and at times it can also be a cause for real concern.

For example – the only ‘Native American spirituality’ teacher I have heard of (with an ‘indian’ name) came to Oz having been invited here by a ‘Feral Community’.
He had taught some kind of a ‘Vision Quest’ and then he had held a ‘Sweatlodge Ceremony’, but because the Sweatlodge had been wayyyyy too overheated there had been real fears for the wellbeing and the safety of the participants.

Later I learned that this teacher had actually been Scottish!

Plus I assume that these European “Native American” spirituality teachers only reinforce stereotypes these hobbyists want to believe in, instead of offering any real information or knowledge.

Fortune tellers, Psychics, UFO buffs, and New Age Shamans are no threat to my people, and I have to only laugh at them. "Cultural Appropriation" is just a gimmick NAFPS use to justify their bullying and name calling. I say buyer beware, when it comes to those Vision Quests, AND NAFPS.

"Fortune tellers, Psychics, UFO buffs, and New Age Shamans are no threat to my people, and I have to only laugh at them. "Cultural Appropriation" is just a gimmick NAFPS use to justify their bullying and name calling. I say buyer beware, when it comes to those Vision Quests, AND NAFPS."

I think cultural appropriation does bother you. That's fair. After being stripped of Native Spirituality and sent to schools that insisted on assimilation.. after the genocide of most of The Peoples... after being stripped of the right to be called human... after the land was ripped away and then raped and mutilated... it is understandable that there is anger and even hatred towards those who now consider it cool to act like a Native.

The Native People's are only one of many indigenous peoples that suffered this fate. In fact, all indigenous peoples were systematical eliminated all over the world when the holy roman church decided to kill off all the God's and become priest kings... God's on earth. All the God's. Much like the priest kings of Egypt they stripped all Sacredness from all Peoples... invented a non-effective boogey man god that only they could speak with... and that holds to this day.

Genocide of any and all who held any connection with Spirit.

Here is the problem. The Children of humanity are empty. Many are searching for Spirit. Truly searching. And, like the priest king/god's, there are many individuals and groups who have no problem selling them more emptiness in the name of The Sacred.

So, some appropriation is from the desperate need to re-connect with Spirit. Most is from the insatiable lust for power and money.

'New Age' ushered in a way to take that power and make that money.

False prophets, empty Ceremonies and Rituals, energy vortexes and giant crystals... all for sale.

Because Sacredness was stripped or hidden from the world, the world became indoctrinated into a false reality as an absolute... the Children can no longer See what is True, what is false. But, they can sense that Sacredness exists.

Why should you care? Because if you don't, the oppressed becomes the oppressor. All that sacrifice. All those lives lost. All the suffering. All for nothing. And Sacredness truly does die. Only dust will remain. Humanity will cease to be, all of us. Not just them. Or those. All.

"Fortune tellers, Psychics, UFO buffs, and New Age Shamans are no threat to my people, and I have to only laugh at them."

There is still a great battle raging for this earth... This Mother. Humanity. Sacredness. Which Warrior would you be? A Dog Soldier or a camp dog? Like it or not, we are all in this together. The time for revenge and ego are no more.

I'm just saying.

All Sacredness is free. When it ceases to be free, it ceases to be Sacredness.

If you can teach the Children... teach them. Strip the Ceremonies from the false prophets. Throw them back to the filth they climbed out of. Become more. Become better.

But these are just my opinions.

Propaganda is what you posted. I do not fear fortune tellers. Organized Religion is all about social order and control. Propaganda is designed to control our thinking. The propaganda posted here, made the new agers look like lions, rather than the mice that they really are. Propaganda always exaggerates to hook one emotionally.

Stop and think for for yourself. It was not the new agers that committed those crimes, It was those who wanted to exploit and control people. If you do not like plastic shamans and fake sweat lodges then, do not purchase them, and they will go out buisness.

Psychological Warfare and Propaganda is made ot hook one emotionally. They both go for the emotions through exaggeration and misinformation. Think! Please think for yourself.

"cultural appropriation" is a gimmick that is used in propaganda. Think past this hook. What really happened, is a thing called Money. It is money that separates us from the Earth, and I don't care who uses it, or makes it. We all borrow things and spiritual ideas form other people we associate with. Native American People did this for 1000s of years.That is only natural. Humans are adaptable. Propaganda causes fear, and uses that fear to control our thinking for the propaganda masters advantage.

Did you actually read my post? Thoughtfully? Or did you skim it with a standard reply already formulated in your mind?

Most of my post was my opinion on the 'why' European's and other wanted to emulate or appropriate Native American Culture. That is where this thread started. That was the original discussion.

"cultural appropriation" is a gimmick that is used in propaganda. Think past this hook."

If this is your opinion that is fine. If you are trying to convince me you have any idea what you are talking about, you lose.

"What really happened, is a thing called Money. It is money that separates us from the Earth, and I don't care who uses it, or makes it."

That is not "what really happened", that is what is happening now. To use propaganda to make money you have to have a audience. A need or want. The question of 'why' means starting at the beginning not jumping to the end. The question was 'why' were those who wanted to appropriate Native American culture. Not, where did this interest/want lead.

I answered that question of why in my post. First, The Children seeking Sacredness or Spirit. That was the beginning. Second -- people who would exploit that need.

"We all borrow things and spiritual ideas form other people we associate with. Native American People did this for 1000s of years.That is only natural."

I believe I covered that in posting the fact that Native Americans were only one of the many Indigenous Tribes world wide. All hold Sacredness, Ceremonies, Rituals of their own.

Native American Peoples may have shared Spiritual idea's for 1000's of years, but their Ceremonies are CLOSED. Even between Tribes. Throwing out a Spiritual 'idea' that someone might incorporate into their view of Spirit is very natural. Sharing Tribal truths are quite another. Please don't consider me stupid. What YOU have said here is propaganda. Standard mis-leading and very blanket statement.

"Propaganda is what you posted. I do not fear fortune tellers. Organized Religion is all about social order and control. Propaganda is designed to control our thinking. The propaganda posted here, made the new agers look like lions, rather than the mice that they really are. Propaganda always exaggerates to hook one emotionally."

I most certainly did not, in any way, shape or form... insinuate or suggest that you should be afraid. Just the opposite. I asked you what kind of Warrior you wanted to be. You are either a Warrior or you are not. Warriors fight the battles while everyone else talks about the battles or refuses to even acknowledge the battles. Those are your choices to make.

I also did not make new agers look like lions instead of the mice they really are. If I recall correctly I called them filth that needed to be returned to their place of origin. Of course, if no one stands up to them and their exploitation they will just continue to roll on the road, not because 'these people are fearful of us' but because 'Hey... no one cares.'

Caring does not mean fearing. Compassion does not mean weakness. A different view or opinion of an issue does not mean propaganda.

"Stop and think for for yourself. It was not the new agers that committed those crimes, It was those who wanted to exploit and control people."

Ever study any Paths or Spirituality other then 'my peoples'? Not 'know about' but study.

Do you have any idea what 'new-agers' are about? Their philosophy? Their Path? Their belief's? Where the Path started. Why The Path started. What the Path even is, if it exists. Ever visited Sedona or any of the other countless places new-agers congregate? I am betting not. I am betting that you are talking with authority about a thing you know very little about.

New-agers have every right to their Path. I have no problem with that... Unless and until they attempt to cross their path over mine.

You have every right to have an opinion on 'new age'. I will respect it as your truth. And respectfully reply that in my opinion you are clueless. And that it is you that needs to think for yourself.

"Psychological Warfare and Propaganda is made ot hook one emotionally. They both go for the emotions through exaggeration and misinformation. Think! Please think for yourself"

I would say that I am most certainly thinking for myself. Critically thinking for myself. The first bud of psychological warfare is insisting that Critical thinking is both unnecessary and exaggerated. Being emotional or caring about an issue involves critical thinking. Everyone isn't a fluffy bunny. But there are some who are vulnerable ... not because they have emotions, that is ludicrous. But because they are lost. Re-think your hook.

Ok. back to the why question.

A quote from a book called "Edge of the Sacred" by David Tacey:
Even though this book deals with the relationship between black and white Australians, imo. the same insights apply here.

The following quotes are from your above reply:

1. If you are trying to convince me you have any idea what you are talking about, you lose.

2. Please don't consider me stupid. What YOU have said here is propaganda. Standard mis-leading and very blanket statement.

3. Ever visited Sedona or any of the other countless places new-agers congregate? I am betting not. I am betting that you are talking with authority about a thing you know very little about

4. And respectfully reply that in my opinion you are clueless.

I will start here: Native American Peoples may have shared Spiritual idea's for 1000's of years, but their Ceremonies are CLOSED. Even between Tribes. Throwing out a Spiritual 'idea' that someone might incorporate into their view of Spirit is very natural. Sharing Tribal truths are quite another. Please don't consider me stupid. What YOU have said here is propaganda. Standard mis-leading and very blanket statement.

The above paragraph is just common misinformation and assumption. This is and was not entirely true. Have you ever experienced a "Native American Ceremonie", not by white people but by natives themselves? To be accurate, you are going to have to describe what "Ceremonies" you are talking about. "Tribal Truth" was shared, but of course, you are going to have to tell me what "Truths" you are talking about.

On Sedona. I live in AZ and I been to Sedona MANY times, visited the book stores and even took a Pink Jeep Tour. I have even photographed the medicine wheels there. Thus I have a good knowledge about "New Age".

I am going to ignore those "You" accusations. I am not sure they are allowed in this forum. They are used to invalidate the opinion, when there a lack of knowledge about it.

Please can we keep this topic polite.


Namaste

Although this is a difficult subject matter to bring up - thank you for that truthful and honest – well thought answer that just about covered the whole situation.

Little Creek -- You make the assumption that I am 'white'. That is probably where the problem originated. I have not only attended Ceremony's, I have participated. Many times. I can track my blood line to Comanche and Cheyenne Arapaho. I have a Son who is a Sun Dancer. There has been a steady stream of Native Peoples from many tribes in and out of my home over the years. I am blessed to have had communion with many different cultures over many issues.

But, Native spirit is right. I should not have been so easily led. I will continue to speak my voice and I will allow you yours. As it should be.

Sentient

"What is needed is spiritual revolution in Euro Australian consciousness. We cannot merely tack an Aboriginal spirituality to our own overly-rational consciousness, but must change our consciousness from within by burrowing down into our feared and previously walled-in unconscious in order to find, or create, an answering image to Aboriginal spirituality.
The direction we need to take is downward, into our own depths, to see what could be happening there, rather than to remain the same and move sideways appropriating another culture's dreaming.
Jung wrote that "People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own souls". It is far easier, he said, to take on spirituality of a foreign culture, to wrap our nakedness in the wondrous trappings of an exotic cosmology, than it is to face the apparent poverty of our own souls and begin a real dialogue with the unconscious inner life of which we are at present oblivious."

That is a very good quote. Very wise words. Thanks for posting them.

I'm sorry. I don't know why that posted twice.

The biggest threat to the 1st Nations are the bullies. Those who tell us what we should do, and what stories and ceremonies are authentic and which ones are not. I never seen a "New Ager" do this. They don't tell us what to do. But I am seeing this in the propaganda you posted, and I do see this way to much on the NAFPS website. The propaganda you posted is telling me what I should do, and provokes fear, and what I should fear.

Thank you Little Creek77 for being here - on this thread - to give voice to that other concern, the bullies. This subject matter makes me soooo uncomfortable – feeling all sick and twisted like a worm in a hook, so I hope this problem can be untangled.

What magdna wrote – I so get it, that is the same or similar Indigenous story and the depth of pain all over the world (what I can gather) and something ‘us whities’ imo. should be mindful of in ‘our attitude of entitlement’ to be informed about Aboriginal cultures/spirituality (of which attitude ‘we’ then of course also expect praise and a medal from the Aboriginals).


I don’t know Sedona from a bar of soap nor anything about the ‘New Age Three Ring Circus’ allegedly happening there, but I do read the NDN jokes: “A REAL Shaman is somebody, who has had at least 2 books published in Sedona” (or something like that). High 5s all round and lots of lols.
This becomes very hurtful over time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_shaman
So popular has that buzz-word become, that I feel like saying – hang on a minute, don’t you realize that by word-association you are creating stereotypes and putting down real Indigenous peoples who have suffered the same or similar fates – but identify themselves with ‘Shamanism’ as their/our spiritual culture.

And it doesn’t end there.
It is almost as if – when you are an Euro and a ‘whitey’ – but if you adopt the anti-cultural-appropriation-group-think-script, you too can then like become an ‘honorary injun’ by association.
And hell hath no hatred greater than an anti-cultural-appropriation-group-think-script-warrior on a fraud hunt.
If you dare to mention you come from a “Shamanic culture” – you are automatically assumed “plastic” and fair game for target practice.

The positive side of this is that when you are falsely accused, it makes you dig deeper into your own culture and history.
An example of this was the other day when I got together with an Oz-Aboriginal friend of mine, who had by an ‘anti-cultural-appropriation bully’ been accused of using their language group’s words as his own.
So my friend had gone into a ‘soul search’ looking back and back in history, when you did do trade, not only with the nearby groups (with whom you do have word commonality) but distant groups as well and how you got (well, women usually) ‘promised’ to those distant trading partners. Besides, when people from far and wide were herded into the same Missions and speaking Aboriginal language became ‘black crime’ – well, people most likely still talked in lingo with each other in secrecy, but now some language group words got mixed up.

I don’t know how or even if this relates to Amerind situation, but my friend painting a picture of the trade gave me content and put into context our trading partners from Far East Siberia as well - these people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ymyyakhtakh_culture

So yes-yes-yes, we have word commonality as well and a genetic legacy (they have got our female line(s) and we have got a couple of theirs, I am 3% Chukchi-Koryak) plus the cultural influence we have hanged and hanged onto by the skin of our teeth.
Of course this doesn’t give me the right to appropriate their culture or play-act their identity, but of that cultural exchange/influence I am proud of (plus I do have more recent ancestry from around there).


But why oh why are Indigenous ‘brothers’ now attacking each other like this and how does this help to preserve the spiritual culture?

This kind of Native Fraud style bullying is Insidious. It is a clear and present danger to the Native People, more than any New Age "Shaman" could ever be. I seen authentic stories called "Fake" by these bullies. Thus this is erroading Traditional Native Culture even more.

"But why oh why are Indigenous ‘brothers’ now attacking each other like this and how does this help to preserve the spiritual culture?"

They are not sentient.

Bullying does not preserve anything. NAFPS is about bullying Not preserving any kind of spiritual culture. NAFPS has nothing to with anything Native. Native "Spiritual Culture" always comes from the Heart The content in NAFPS is a direct threat to the heart. We must ignore this kind of bullying and hate.

One cannot gather the insight of judgement with the retrospective melancholy of watching YouTube videos. Native American Spirituality and the concept of ceremonies for those who seek healing and teaching will always be available. Those whom follow their hearts will never go wrong. Those who will tend to follow Their minds will always remain in question .

I do not understand people.

Why this name calling and labeling the wannabees, the frauds, this association with shamanism, why this need to distinguish the true shamans, from the plastics, the frauds, the fakes the deceivers?

I truly do not mean to pick here at you, or at your post, at all in the way this may be perceived. I mean to address that I see this everywhere.

I can not state how I feel, or my faith, or the very path I have followed, and strived and yes have in my own way suffered for- for the very sake and lives of others. Without hearing all this.

I understand very well that your intent is not to harm at all. But this is everywhere.

Recently I have watched a youtube interview with rainbow eagle,

who was by al carrol

Who was also declared to be a fraud.

Presumably by someone else.

From this I gather rainbow eagle- I've never heard of them- random trivia- Was declared a fraud by al carrol - whom I've not heard of, whom was declared a fraud by someone else- I don't know whom.

From that I can't help but feel- Becky I heard from Tiffany that Joe said you stink, but I heard also from Amanda, that Tiffany has a reek about her herself, but Joe doesn't seem to think this way, but what does Joe know anyway? Of course he'll defend Tiffany tooth and nail anyway, he likes her you know, I know, Rachel told me so.

Truth be told. You asked where the truth in all the rampant fraud declarations is- My personal belief is, there truly isn't any.

Someone whomever declaring another a fraud does not make this so, this other being declared as such does not make it so.

These types of declarations are rude, disrespectful, petty, from all sides, in this type of very public eye, this public machine.

It is unnecessary judgment, bullying, name calling that is going on in our global society, that will continue to go on, and has been for quite a very long while.

In my view. Which essentially by the reactions to most here by me speaking, topic posting, and trying to help, being disagreed with much, thanked much for help I offered, and otherwise ignored- does not amount to much but a pot to urinate in.

I suppose?

If you must know about my background in Shamanism- and fraudulence.

And my literal genetics.

I am 33 percent Scottish in Blood. Descended. Born in Maine in the USA- West. Currently residing in my birth state I have never left.

I am also white- hear me? As a ghost. Pale.

I am also French Canadian. 25 percent. As well as an English mix I can't rightly remember this exactly, perhaps it is more than Scottish it very well could be. My Grandfather's family was Scottish, my Grandmother's- both of these on my father's side- English.

My mother's side is where French Canadian comes in- 25 percent.

Oh and my Native blood? How does any of this even matter?

3 percent. What little of it being a mix of Mikmaq and Abenaki. I have a general idea of the tribe what little I can find about my own ancestors. I am not too sure if what I have been told from family is the exact tribe. I do know Abenaki- which is more a class of peoples.

Tribe I have been told was, pequawket. If this is true whomever google is there listing as the last known pequawket probably isn't the last- last full blood. And full blood does NOT make anyone any better than anyone else. Or any more a Shaman than any other.

Yes as far as Shamanism goes and who is worthy of practicing. I really don't care who says what about what, or if I practice my white skin makes me a fraud. Or if I make a mistake in what Natives believe and mess something up as humans will do, prepare to be called a fraud.

I have dealt with many hardships, many of them bordering on the unbelievable.

I do not need anyone to tell me which Faith I love, which path I love, which path I have walked for many many years now. The work I have put into learning what little I know of it, the work to help others, to be at their service, to get messages through, to SAVE Lives.

I do not believe anyone deserves to be called a fraud for something they genuinely love. Even if they are, but it isn't hurting anyone in the end, and they may have good intentions at heart, and who knows perhaps have helped others upon the way.

I do not mean to sound as if I want nor intend to scold, I absolutely do not.

I am simply an empathetic creature and can be overwhelmed at times, by the thoughts and feelings of others- not specifically you yourself or what you have posted it.

And I am glad you brought the topic to light.

As far as truth goes, what I can offer is simply my perspective and my own personal truth, and it is I do not feel anyone should be called a fraud for what they believe in- if they truly believe it, if it causes others no malice, if it is intended for good, and if they love the path they Choose to walk.

It is a choice.

That is my perspective of my truth.

It is like any other's, mine alone. To walk.

NAFPS is all about bullying and promoting oneself at the expense of others. They have no right to tell us what to fear or who to fear, or is authentic or not authentic. We see this kind of bullying and propaganda in modern politics as well. It is all about Control.

Many people are affected by Name calling etc it is a form of bullying.i myself have not had an easy life.plus I have been ridiculed told I'm a fraud and don't know people.
all this because of who I am and what I do.i was born Hearing and Seeing spirit so I'm a natural medium I am also a Healer and a counsellor. my hair is Black I used to be called little indian when I was growing up.I have got Native blood in me.but I used to be told I just wanted to be so I was a fraud. by ignorant people,
I am a spiritualist I walk my own path.i have more compassion and empathy for people than a lot of people I know.
yet I'm a fraud according to them. I ignore people like that their ignorance is obvious. I am no fraud
I am what I am and who I am I am me.people who think otherwise are entitled to think what they like.
my heart is pure.people who force their views or thoughts on others are nothing but cowards because that is what a bully is.

Namaste

It is all about controlling you, out of anger and fear. They do it out of total ignorance.

It's funny you use the word shaman and native american as if the two are the same. Shaman is a Russian word for their indigenous healers.

If anything that word has been stolen and applied to other cultures but I don't hear them complaining. All nations and cultures had a spiritual connection to earth before religion came and forced a non earth based belief system on them basically encouraging the belief we are not connected to the earth/creation.

Unfortunately the witch hunts and missionaries forcibly converting people wiped out most of the ancient cultural knowledge from most of the old world.

This does become a very hurtful problematic situation.

Besides, what Indigenous group on the planet hasn’t suffered loss?
Because of assimilation etc. etc. (in my experience) many feel like a jigsaw puzzle with pieces missing and how one then goes about making one’s self whole again is an individual choice or path. Plus if one now is a racial mixture there is that duality within to come to terms with, to reconcile, to juggle and the divided/mixed loyalties to observe - unless one wants to become a self-hater, but that doesn’t work in the long run.
So I cannot see how one can compartmentalize people into neat little boxes or moulds with definite black (red) & white borders such as bullies perhaps would have people conform into.

One mixed heritage artist's work I admire:

One of my own (jigsaw) missing pieces was a Saami Noaidi/Noita (‘Shaman’) in our family tree, who during the Swedish occupation & witch hunts was sentenced to death for being one – which made my grandparents go totally silent about that side of family - in fear - they still carried because their/our culture had been so demonized and shamed.
As was my (more recent) Siberian ancestor kept hidden & I think because of fears about racial discrimination set by the "racial purity - ethnic hygiene" policies of their time.


SaturninePluto
My initial reaction to this was (I think) similar to yours. Bewilderment, disbelief, hurt, anger (as masked hurt), defensiveness, especially since I had never irl. come across this phenomena called “Plastic Shamans” and thought I never would – and feeling really hurt because - just for being an Euro one can and does even end up being accused of Native American practices one has never even seen, let alone practiced (nor understood why people would even want to in the first place!)

*

But a workshop: “Many people, now you too can become a Shaman” - is coming to town, and the teacher is claiming to be a representative of my ancestry :icon_eek: who is channelling a Siberian Shaman – yet carries a Native American “Medicine People” ‘title’ (we are not “Medicine Men/Women”) and the channelled Siberian Shaman’s name (meaning “True Path”) is not Siberian either.
So things just do not add up and the whole thing starts to sound like one of those anti-cultural-appropriation-group-think-script soap opera propaganda episodes (and I am not even kidding).
So - Is this a scam targeting gullible people (New Agers) who do not know anything about FennoScandian/Saami/Siberian history or culture? (As people generally do not, so they can easily be taken for a ‘ride’)?

I don’t know. :dontknow:

But SaturninePluto, - What would you do if somebody claimed to be from your ancestry/ethnicity and culture, if/when they aren’t?
And if you did discover that the whole thing is a scam?

If neither bullying: naming, shaming and ridiculing (i.e. creating a modern day witch hunt) the leader and the followers is not the appropriate response to this – is doing nothing either? As in - letting the phenomena of the scammers, their marketing enablers and ‘victims’ play itself out as their Karma only, ignoring that your cultural identity has been ‘stolen’ and/or misrepresented?

This is a problematic situation also.

You asked what if someone claimed to be from my ancestry and turned out not to be, and if I did discover it to be a scam.

In order for me to discover it to be a scam to begin with, I would have to have evidence, documented as to their lineage and genealogy. I would have to see their medical blood work to prove to me that beyond a doubt that they did not share some genealogy of Mikmaq or pequawket, or some blood proof that they have no percentage of Scottish in them.

See?

And that is what I was talking about- an individual whom gets the facts mixed up, and has a youtube video come out- in order for me to believe they are a total scam artist- I would require that they shared willingly evidence of their genealogy, but who the heck am I to ask that of them?

I have a book on Mikmaq medicine. Now being of this descent you must realize how far back this goes, and how very little information there is out there on my particular North American heritage. With this in mind if it turns out a couple years from now someone posts a blog or a newspaper article about this particular book, and their blog or article speaks of how very very much of that information in the book, being, incorrect, or not so, or untrue...

It wouldn't actually surprise me if very much of it as it stands now, is already incorrect.

There is not very much left of the Native culture here in the west and this is true for many many other places, and their native people.

Many of the old beliefs have been lost.

Name calling, arguing, placing more and more blame, and arguing petty points as you are not a real Medicine Man/Woman Because You Are White. Or you are not a real Shaman because you are only 25 percent of this Russian heritage.

All this does is continue to promote racist thinking and behavior.

Now if there was an upcoming workshop in my area run by someone claiming to be Mikmaq and then channeling the spirit of a Navajo cheif, and what he said in his workshops according to others by word of mouth was majority Navajo beliefs, what would I do? If I could afford to I'd go attend his workshop and see what it actually is all about then. And after that, then I would make up my mind on whether or not I feel the workshop was worth my time. And if he did talk quite a bit about Navajo beliefs as opposed to Mikmaq it wouldn't bother me in the least. I happen to love to learn about the beliefs of others.

And even still if I seriously and adamantly did not particularly care for any of it, I personally would not openly and publicly call the person a fraud. And if someone elsewhere made mention of an interest of going to the workshop of said person, I would not in any way shape or form tell them- He's a fake! Don't bother!

Because what somebody else does or does not do is not at all for me to say, and they have to be the one's to make up their own minds.

And I expect to make up my own mind about others as well.

So when people say- Tom Brown Jr made both Rick and Grandfather up in his books, he learned from "White" professors at his college in New Jersey!

I auto think- "Tiffany told Amanda so and so punched your locker!"

All the response others are ever going to actually get out of me when people say such things is "So"?

Well she punched it...

Did she break it?

No.

Well alright then....

Personally I understand why Native people of certain areas would get upset if their beliefs are being misrepresented. Or if people not of their decent are making those claims.

It is reasonable to be upset and this is something the world really does need to bring to light and talk about, and talk about Honestly more.

It is not reasonable to keep feeding the fires of hatred in my perspective.

It is not the responsibility of Groups like NAFPS to tell us who to fear or who is authentic. That is just plain bullying and control. Very destructive.

You will know within your own heart who is Authentic you don't need anyone to tell you


Namaste

I am glad I went to the New Age: “Many people, now you too can become a Shaman” - Shamanic gathering.

At first we did a “Shamanic Journey” – which was great.
I didn’t have any specific intent for my journey, so I was just accepting and unbiasedly open to whatever my subconscious chose to throw at me to ‘witness’.
Saw one of our totem animals up close (learning more about the details of its behaviour) and a tree associated with it and willing to be of service for ceremonial purposes. (We hold the ‘funeral’ ceremonies for the opposite moiety of totems).
Saw a Sacred Place up in Lapland and heard a person singing to a beat of a drum. (The oval or egg shaped drums correlates in the mythology with the Cosmic Egg, the symbol of the Universe), which the song (without words) I heard was about.

BUT when I narrated my journey vision to the 2 “Siberian Shamen of North European lineage” ( well actually 2 Brits) leading the group – I was instantly told that: “We don’t buy into what has been written about shamanism in the books, here we are not adopting outside influences but rather, we are bringing out the Shaman within".

And I agree. If you do not come from an authentic shamanic cultural background – why pretend?!

BUT HELLO!
My vision came straight from my subconscious, from the North European lineage (which overlaps with Siberian Shamanism), which IS our belief system, our culture, our history, the cellular memory or the collective subconscious of my people or our Culture as a “morphic field” - I find my belonging in.

So why – for this New Age Shamanic group – was my vision altogether ‘wrong’ and not acceptable?