Buddhist sub-culture
 

I've been participating here for little over a year I guess now.
And was wondering why I seem to react so strongly here in comparison to some of the other forum's I have been a member off or have been participating in.

So I have been reading older posts within this sub-forum. And I noticed that there is a strange Buddhist sub-culture forming here. Very little listening very much boasting about the understanding one has of what Buddhism means to the individual.

Sutta's are quoted only when they strengthens ones claims. All in all very little discussion regardless of the length of some threads..

I am probably too invested to make a thorough and un-opinionated conclusion. So I won't. All I can say is that what we see here, even in the posts of those who claim to walk the talk. Gautama would turn in his grave to if he saw what his teachings gave rise to in spiritual lala land 2500 years later.

He did predict it though..

With Love
Eelco

I think your reacting so strongly because Buddhism is an important part of your life and it pains you to see Buddha's teachings being twisted inside and out. I would appreciate it if you would explain why you find some interpretations wrong because then I can learn something. I see you have a lot to offer, but sometimes your like a bull in a china shop :smile:
If someone post's something you think is wrong could you not show a sutta/sutra and point us in the right direction please, that's if you have the time that is.

It's not an understanding of Buddhism in any sense of getting close to the 'true meaning', its an unserstanding in real-life from which the meanings are assigned. Yes, they are use to affirm being right, or proving another wrong, much of the time.
I generally find people want to talk about the high spiritual stuff but the discourse often degenerates to derisive slurs, so there is quite an obvious disparity between the talk and the walk. I usually create threads which are there for the sake of practice, which means walking the talking, as the practice and the philosophy are not two different things, but two parts of the one thing that go together.

I'll try.
That said even though I read quite a few sutta's I am not a scholar and would have to search what the Buddha says about most topics.

I do believe that calling one self a Buddhist pertains the verification of ones understanding with the actual sutta's preferably the Pali Canon.

With love
Eelco

I noticed that. I wonder why you still do, because reading back it seldom plays out the way you intended. I'll say again that what I say in these threads are as much a part of my practise as the patience I display in daily life. The one does not diminish the other in any way.

In fact the help me grow in discernment, understanding and all ways that matter. Sila entails everything that bubbles to the surface which is not part of formal Samantha or insight practises

With Love
Eelco

' as the practice and the philosophy are not two different things, 'Unless the practice doesn't fit the philosophy of Buddhism. Then you do have two parts.

I do know people who call themselves Buddhists and can recite a multitude of Suttas, are they following Buddha's teachings.... not all.

Lol. Yeah I've met those too.
It's why for me it goes both ways. Sometimes I realize something and search where the Canon or the commentaries describe it to see if it fits.
Sometimes I find a gem in the Canon and go to work to come to a similar experience.

Same thing with other religions, which is why I dabbled with a lot of them. Wicca, druidism, shamanism, spiritism. The veda's, Hinduism, the Koran, the New testament.. there's recognition in most. There's aversion as well.

So far Buddhism is the only one I have yet to find something in I can falsify outside the realm of belief.

With Love
Eelco

Yes I feel the same, sometimes I look to Suttas for verification incase i'm going senile or going down the wrong road, at other times I read a Sutta and it's like a light comes on and I realize that the teaching was already somewhere in my subconscious anyway it just need a little spoon to stir it up. I do enjoy reading some Suttas but sometimes it's like I'm reading an alien language, I can't make head nor tails of them :smile: I know when it's time to move on to others and leave the aliens for someone else. If Buddha had a School now, I would be in his baby class :D

Sila is a part of insight meditation, and there must be essays on that online, but I don't know what samatha is.

I've tried to tell you a few times already. Do you want me to try again?

I can provide an overview how the Noble 8 fold path can be broken down in Sila, Samantha and Vipassana.
Sila extends way beyond Vipassana in my understanding.

With Love
Eelco

Nah he would not react. It's a beautiful and natural thing the dance between people that takes place. It paints a canvas to see and learn. If you put your hand in boiling water, you get burned. Likewise, if you jump into the energy of thought and thinking, of identification with thought, you get burned.

Thought is a lot of things. It is defensive, it is aggressive, it asserts truths, it will not accept being "wrong" within itself. It infers meanings in subjective and objective ways. But thought can also be kind, non-judgemental, compassionate, understanding. It is up to us. Really we cause it all by what thoughts we project, pay attention to, make real and "fixed" as physical reality by saying or typing out.

Yes he would react and as Eelco mentioned in his opening post Buddha did forsee that his teachings would be altered.
Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? One who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And one who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are the two who slander the Tathagata.
—AN 2.23

Its not "Samantha" its "Samatha" and "Samatha and Vipassana" are the names for tranquility and insight meditation.

"sila" means "morality or virtue" .....for the benefit of readers who aren't familiar with Pali terminology.


_/|\_

My auto-correct is terrible. You are right. It is Samatha.

As for their definitions. The one word usual translations don't do justice to their depth or explain their relation to the eight fold path.

With Love
Eelco(at work now so can't make elaborations)

From Wikipedia: turn in one's grave.

This hyperbolic figure of speech is used to describe the upset, disgust, horror or anger of a deceased person if he or she were alive to hear of a certain news story, action or idea.

Buddha would not get upset or angry by encountering some humans bickering on a forum. He might put a few people on ignore though.

React to what and how? Not sure what you are talking about.

The closest sutta that would describe the Buddha's actions when monks were bickering is this one.
.http://www.yellowrobe.com/component/...rfections.html


https://sujato.wordpress.com/2009/11...el-at-kosambi/


Turning in his grave may have been a tad strong. And his leaving does indicate that he didn't want no part of that.

That's a matter of opinion, one doesn't always need a lengthy explanation to grasp the meaning of a word and place it in context. There's also a great deal more than just the teachings about the Eightfold Path in the Pali Canon.

I don't look in here very often but in general I sometimes get the feeling there's constant struggle and confusion here between posters who think they can teach others about Buddhism, wanting to be "top dog" - and it doesn't necessarily make friendly, interesting, or rational dialogue.

Anyway, it is as it is. May everyone be well and happy.

<<waves goodbye>>

Take care.

S. _/|\_

I thought it was Buddha's teachings you were referring to, not the bickering :icon_eek:

I think you are sure :biggrin: thats why you changed your words completely...

According to this, Buddha would take a look at the forums, then say ok I'm going on retreat.

Maybe so.

With love
Eelco

Yup.
And as such we are left wondering how he was affected by it.
Although he does explain later how he viewed the whole thing as a teaching.

With Love
Eelco

I think its rather pointless speculating about what someone who lived 2,500 years ago in Iron Age India would have thought about internet forums.

However, the Buddha did say the following words -

"... there are here some foolish men who study the Teaching; having studied it, they do not wisely examine the purpose of those teachings. To those who do not wisely examine the purpose, these teachings will not yield insight. They study the Teaching only to use it for criticizing or for refuting others in disputation. They do not experience the (true) purpose for which they (ought to) study the Teaching. To them these teachings wrongly grasped, will bring harm and suffering for a long time. And why? Because of their wrong grasp of the teachings."

(MN 22 Alagaddupama Sutta: The Snake Simile).


All the best. _/|\_

.

In that case I think I'm done here..

Take care everyone.

With Love
Eelco

Ask the person you told to answer for me :biggrin:

Asked who to do what? I'm confused. Is English your main language?

You know perfectly well, you wrote below,
' I told someone earlier today I knew you would not answer '
So I wrote,
Ask the person you told to answer for me.

Mybe the moral of your story is,
Don't presume and don't speak about others behind their back, something that you do in PM.

You mad about something? No I am being 100% honest here. I can't understand you all. But that's ok. I tried to ask you questions to understand your posts directed at me but you would not answer which is fine too. Don't matter.

“If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'”

Brahmajala Sutta...

I did so for a while.
But am getting tired of it to be honest.
I'm certainly not out the gain the moral high ground or become top dog. Even so. People seem to regard me as such with a few exceptions.

You're words had me exploring threads from before my active involvement in this sub-forum. I saw the same patterns over and over and over. Which spurted me to post this thread.

In the end. It seems I am I'll suited to expose the unhealthy aspects of these conversational fallacies.

So am going on a small hiatus and rethink how to shape my participation in the future.

With love
Eelco

Not mad at all, if your read all the postings from the beginning you will see that I have answered what I thought was appropriate. I presumed Eelco was referring to ' Wrong interpretations ' not the bickering.

I pointed out that Buddha would react, hence

Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? One who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And one who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are the two who slander the Tathagata.
—AN 2.23


Choosing to discuss others with other people is not nice and leads to misunderstandings, if you had read the whole thread instead of gossiping about me you would find I did answer, mybe not the way you wanted but as I thought was appropriate.

People can't see their own stuff. You have been 100% right in a lot of very insightful posts. Geez one thread, you were pointing out a reality that was right there in obvious sight and the people you were trying to make see it couldn't. People got all defensive and mad and so yea, at that point what can you say or anybody say.

I know your intentions are honorable, enjoy your hiatus.

That's what I'll try to find an answer to.
Back in the day when I was a young squatting punk I went door to door in an attempt to talk with people about voting extreme right wing parties. I found that in some cases my appearance was one of the main causes these people voted as far right as they could and that unless I changed my appearance I had no chance of being listened to. So I did.

This feels like a similar waypoint.
That said where I felt I could reach people then altering my appearance I wonder if a change of writing style will have the same effect.

If as you say people will not see their own stuff. There's little point in trying. Which will also diminish my participation to the few threads that do appear to be insightful.

With Love
Eelco

:hug2:

With love

On second thought.
Seeing the latest thread on here.

I will let this place be gems playground.
The main pattern I see on here from way back before I participated has been played out. And another similar cycle started just as I took my leave

With love
And bless you all.

Eelco

Ah ok so you believe Buddha would get mad and upset, "turn in his grave," if he saw wrong interpretations on these forums. I understand you now.:smile:

After reading various Suttas regarding his anger then I do believe he would be . :smile: