Where did death come from?
 

I know, it was here when we got here but was it always here?
Most indentify with their bodies but you can remove parts of the body and the I am remains whole. Does the I am know death, I think not, so it has to be something learned.

Death has been a part of life as life is you can not have one without the other, where their is Dark there is always Light.
when you pass over your soul travels on.your body is no longer needed. that is what you bury.or another way of looking at it is your body is just something to carry your soul around whilst you are here

Namaste

Without death life would be unbearable, at least at our current level of civilisation. Sure in the future we may be able to defer death a while, but i think it is inevitable.

I know what the accepted beliefs are with regards to death but like a scout tracks their game so can one go back in time and I have found that consciousness predates the physical, death relates to the physical so it was learned, anything learned can be unlearned. Remember, we use to think the earth was flat.

Death came into existence the moment that life did.

All things came into existence at the same moment.

The I am does know death, otherwise it wouldn't know it's alive. Since we recognize we are alive, we must also know death. It seems unfortunate that we must experience death, but perhaps it's the best thing about life. I think the worst thing about death is the uncertainty. Perhaps once we experience it the pain is over and we get bored, we desire life once again and we reincarnate.

That is to say the I AM experiences life and death. Could any one of us say we know life though? We know the experience of life but we all describe it differently. We could try to play with words here and reach a common understanding, but that understanding would not compare to the experience. The words life and God are similar. We say we can experience each one but we can't clearly define either.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that the I am came into existence at the same time as life and death? And if its the natural order of things why should it be thought of as unfortunate? It seems to me that in order for one to recognize that it is alive there must be another.
Are you aware that the natural state of the mind is at rest?

I'm saying that life, time, death, all came from the original I AM. They are not requirements for the I AM to exist, they come from within the I AM. So the I AM existed before those things.

they were un-manifested before. But at the whim of the I AM they were manifested. Why is not known.



IDK why things are the way they are. Why do we pillage the planet? Why do we steal time from our grandchildren? Why do we steal from our elders?

Why why why. I don't have answers for the madness caused by the free will of human choice.

You can answer your own question a little though. You can answer why you think death is unfortunate.

Look to the people you love the most. Some day they will be gone and you will think it's so unfortunate that death has to be a part of life. One day you'll lose the person you love the most in life. It's times like those that make us question why death is necessary and it's also times like those that help us realize why death has the bad reputation it does. The more unknown a person is to us the easier it is to say "death isn't so bad, it's actually the best part of life!" , but when our closest loved one dies then we are truly tested.

IDK about natural state of the mind. Natural state compared to what?

It is not my intention to provoke anxiety, please know that. My goal is not to be right but to get it right. I have come to the point in understanding and awareness where the I am choses thoughts. In your original response you wrote that the I am knows death as per your reasoning then your second response seemed to be about a different I am but it is closer to the one that I am talking about. The pre-death I am, the one from which we are exact replicas.
We are born into teachings, traditions, behaviors and ignorance developed by our ancestors, if they didn't need to evolve what is our purpose? Just to be an illustration?

I don't think we can lose some one we love, I think what you are talking about is about times that you never had or times wasted.

Where did Death come from?

We opted to enter into temporal, fragile forms for some reason. I can't fully explain why. I refuse to use someone else's words or philosophy to do that. But we came here to live inside those forms to experience this state of being and learn from it etc.

Those forms, being fragile and open to dissolution, decay, illness, and eventual passing away, are pretty tough to live in sometimes. But there is definitely a beauty in this Earth and the life here. I have learned a terrific amount from being here. If you were to see my life laid out to look at, you would see how I have changed.
The trouble is, the only way out is through some kind of dissipation and eventual death of that form, which can hurt.

I have heard it said (somehere) that Souls are very brave to come here. But that it is great learning.

It's not my reasoning, it's the words of elders who have gone before me. If you want to learn more about it look into Hinduism and other forms of eastern mysticism, that's where I got the teachings from.

Evolution is an idea to describe how the world appears to us just like most forms of monotheism. It seems convincing, yes, but it's about as close to being proven as the big bang. Lots of evidence, yes, but nothing concrete.

They needed to survive not evolve. Mankind hasn't needed to evolve in tens of thousands of years, maybe hundreds. It's also a rare phenomenon that in humans instead of evolving again biologically it's our culture that evolves instead. Very strange but also amazing. A lizard cant become a bird through choice, but we can choose which culture we participate in, so in some way its almost like we have conquered evolution.



Exact replicas of the oringinal I AM.... I have to strongly disagree. Maybe if you further explain what you mean I won't but it seems like a statement full of pride to be honest. Exact replica's of God... Maybe we have like, one, maybe two, parts of our existence that are remotely similar to Gods, but all of them?


If you lose someone they are gone from your future. Their physical presence is gone from your life forever... maybe even after death, maybe until death, who knows. The point is when people die they are gone, and it hurts.

When I miss someone who has died, yes I miss the old times, but the reason I miss that is because I'm thinking about wanting to do something with them in the present moment. And realizing that I can't I go to memories instead. I've heard the argument "you don't miss someone, you miss their memories" but I don't think it's entirely true. I think part of the pain is realizing that there can never be more memories made, that what there is is all there is, and that's depressing. The unknown can be scary but it's also exciting.

So these are not your words/beliefs but something you were taught, did you never have questions, is it too late to question now or is it unquestionable? My beliefs are mine, some have been gathered and incorporated but they all must be understood before I make them mine. So what I say may have been said before me but I don't say it till it rings true to me.
When I spoke of evolution, I was referring to the process, change, like this thread. But now that you mention it, the change in the human form can be measured.

Do you not think of the I AM as your parent?

Gone from your future, now that sounds like pride. There is no future, there is only now and now constantly changes. Maybe the memories are there for you to manifest now, not to regret but to build on and share/be that person with others.

It is well said that "that which is does not even say I AM". :smile:

Some of us would argue there is not death - there is just changing of states - solid to ether, ether to solid.

The I Am which I refer is not a sound but an awareness of self, neither passive nor active.

Is your thought that to enjoy life, the less one thinks of themselves the more one gets out of it?

I don't think it can be argued that death doesn't exist but one can argue that it is misunderstood.

My thought is that consciousness was aware of itself sans the so called physical.

If reading it out of a book is considered being taught then yes I was taught.

In my opinion nothing is unquestionable. I may read something and put off questioning until the end of the chapter, or end of the book, but only if I really like and trust the author. For most authors I will begin to question it whenever the red flags come up. My internal red flags I mean.

I don't think of the I AM at all. It's a mystery that goes beyond thought. I've become aware of it many times before but the awe and wonder has faded for me by this point. I'm not trying to live in awe or bliss, nor am I trying to understand the grand scheme of the cosmos. I'm just trying to live my life and for that I don't need knowledge of the I AM. I pursue knowledge as a hobby.


Ehh. I will stand my ground that there is a future.

Most people can barely sit through an hour and a half movie -- 2 hours is stretching it. Such is life and death for humans in this current psycho-physical realm. Death comes from the desire for change.

"Fire is whispering the secret in smoke's ear
This aloe's wood loves me
because I help it live out its purpose

With me, it becomes fragrance
and then disappears
altogether

The knots untie
and open into absence
as you do with me,
my friend

Eaten by flame and
smoked out into the sky

This is most fortunate

What's unlucky is not to change
and disappear

The black soil must crumble
to give itself to plants

Think how sperm and egg become
the smiling face and head

Bread must dissolve
to turn into thought . . ."

~Rumi

My interpretation of "I AM" is similarly "the awareness of self" EXACTLY as you described it.

My experience is that, when one transcends the little, separatist, self-created, mental-prison often referred to as the ego, one has the direct experience of unitary consciousness (for lack of better words) and one intuitively sees the "Big Picture" (so to speak) and acts quite naturally in the best interests of all without an expectation of a return. That --- to me --- is the "I AM" (not verbal) experience of the totality where, naturally, "the less one thinks of themselves, the more one gets out of it". When I surrender to THAT, things ALWAYS work out for the best ... ultimately...for all involved whereas, when I rely on the little separatist mindset, things are not always that positive.

I understand.

Not sure what you mean by this sentence, "Death comes from the desire for change." It could be said that death and change have similarities but when you say "the desire for change" I don't know what you mean, I don't think life desires to change but that life itself is change and not to change is death. What is lost is the fact that something is, at the same time, experiencing these concepts and is apart from them.

I think Rumi's poem refers to death after the fact and not where did it come from. I like his thinking.

When I contemplated the ubiquitous nature of the I AM, the hardest part was letting it occupy the same space that I believe I and only I occupied. Once past the conundrum the ego takes on a new understanding and awareness.

I enjoyed your effort in bringing your experience of the I AM alive for me.

Contemplating the ubiquitous nature of the I AM is still a preliminary practice as there is clearly a dualistic subject-object relationship implied. That was an obstacle that was indeed hard for me to transcend and, even harder, to sustain.

my dad usd say we all born 2 die

I think life and death and the veil of forgetfulness is a gift. We would never grow if we didn't forget first!

As I contemplate death.

I gaze upon nature. :D

For me, its more getting use to this realization in daily life and I am so glad that it is a slow process or I fear I would have lost myself in a faster transition.

It sounds as if you dad was true to his word, are his thoughts yours as well?

Are you saying that we created death as a gift to ourselves?

And nature seems to go round and round but the question is why? Can you not see yourself as a creator? Why would you create death?

I apologize for not responding sooner but this forum doesn't notify activity and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

My present spiritual beliefs is that to enter the earth plain from the spirit world you need to be born, so the only way back to the spirit world is to die.
So death is not an ending but a transition. :biggrin:

dnt no all i rmer ths quat wen iv bean 2 funrells jesus saed im resareson of lif thisit be belve me nevr die
ths ucd cud giv u anserss dnt no if its ok but ill
https://youtu.be/HeM4m_4dWeA