Yes, I think Christmas is special whether one's a Christian or not. It is a special time of the year, with the days darkening and then the changes from the 21st onwards. Also, a time for people to come together, have a big dinner, share presents, and there's more movies on the telly during these weeks. Good overall, and it can all be as good and spiritual as one wants it to be. :-)

Honza,

I think it might be helpful to understand that the two opposing sides will continue to defend their positions. Although this sub-forum is labeled Christianity, both opposing sides will continue to justify their personal beliefs and why their personal beliefs are in alignment with christianity.

and to address your initial post...........yes I believe

Justify their personal beliefs - yes I am sure that is true. However just to show some understanding of the opposing argument would be a great step forward.

honza the opposing argument would be what? to oppose ones argument would mean to go against what one has believed.

sadly, MANY don't seem to understand that there is NO "HELL", as we were taught to believe. I'm referring to a fiery place, where the wicked are said to be tortured after death forever. Jehovah God and Jesus NEVER created such place. MANY of us sooner or later will go to "hell", but NOT the so-called fiery one. the wicked dead goes to their grave, NOT any fiery place of torment. the dead Knows nothing at all ,(Eccles. 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten). they wouldn't even know if they were being "tortured by fire." death!... is a PAYMENT for SIN, (Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death...). so there would be NO need for Jehovah God and Jesus to punish us after death. peace

Or acceptance that others can have different views about the same subject, and that's ok.

At last some words of wisdom :smile:

If some would open their Bibles, that is after they go and get one, they would realize Hell is not in the Bible.

How much wrath was thrown around because this simple 'step' could not be implemented?

Remember the story of the rich man and poor Lazarus, what's the meaning of that story? Acording to the scriptures, it was a story told by Jesus.

Well, maybe not in your Bible, clearly-not-inhabiting-the-same reality-scenario-as-me BJ :icon_eek: but in mine, which is the King James translation, it clearly says: "There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." and also "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

The idea of a 'punishing' and/or 'rewarding' 'God' is the result of people antropomorphizing the 'nature' of 'Reality', ThatMan. A River (in this case The Flow of Life) simply 'negatively' reinforces those 'molecules' that that go against its flow and 'positively' reinforces those that flow with It.

BJ's notion of what's said in the Bible about how 'God' (i.e. The Flow of Life) operates and his consequent pronouncements are a "blind man's buff" :D therefore, IMO.