Scripture Interpretations?
 

Occasionally, I'll read a scripture & discover a new meaning (new to me :wink: ).
Like John 3:5...
I've always interpreted this to refer to baptism & the spirit & I can see the symbolism & possible related resonance/feeling associated with baptism. Yet, just now, I thought about how our bodies are mostly made of water & how we are nurtured & born of our mother's water or amniotic fluid.

Also considering the many who never are baptized (& yes there is the argument about lds temple work)... Everyone in a sense is "born of water"... then it's up to us to be born of the Spirit...

Now what does that mean?

Anyway... I would like to know if you have or come across any new interpretations of scripture. I realize there are countless perspectives, so it's fun to learn new ways of seeing things.

I was thinking aloud to my son about this & meanings of the Christmas story. (Lucky him! :wink: lol)
Luke 17;20-21:Consider that ^ scripture in relation to this one (mentioned before)...These births are within, or necessary parts of us, both physical birth (born of water) & spiritual birth (awareness & getting in touch with divinity already within?).
So the story of baby Jesus can also be related to us... to our physical & spiritual births. I always wondered why such focus on Jesus' birth & then not much else, until the last few years of his life. Really, would an elightened one (Jesus or whoever wrote the 4 gospels) want us to worship & adore his particular birth, or was there a moral to the story, as usual? Parable! People will interpret & resonate based on each one's level of understanding.

It also implies that we must have been physically born (to have had a body) to enter the kingdom of God.
Any thoughts?

I think you are on to something! I believe the churches have interpreted scriptures incorrectly. Eckhart Tolle has some very interesting interpretations as well that really resonate with me that are wholly different than what the churches teach

Hi SeaZen,
Thanks for your encouragement.
I bought & started reading Eckhart Tolle's book, "The Power of Now" - & it's good, but I haven't finished it yet... I keep getting distracted with other good books.

One thing he wrote that created a perspective change is his explanation of "I am"... It really hit me when I was preparing to teach about how Jesus taught "I am the truth, the way, the light"... & I thought, yeah, "I am!" Not to be self-righteous, but going along with what Jesus said about the kingdom of God being within.
If you remember or think of any new ways of resonating, please share.

I will venture a guess coming from a mystical background. Considering that we are Spirit, mind and body... Spirit can be experienced from a space of Christ Consciousness which is the highest form of energy. And energy can be likened to three states of water - vapour, liquid and ice - H20 in various stages of vibration. To get to the finest vibration, vapour, we need to pass from body-consciousness (solid), through mind (liquid) to the highest causal space of Christ Consciousness (vapour) to be able to experience Spirit (which is beyond all three).

In Matthew, we have the same great truth put more simply and more vividly, 'Unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven' (Matthew 18:3).

Let's start with the kingdom of heaven. We get our best definition of it from the Lord's Prayer.

Your kingdom come:
Your will be done in earth as it is in heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is a society where God's will is as perfectly done on earth as it is in heaven. To be in the kingdom of heaven is therefore to lead a life in which we have willingly submitted everything to the will of God; it is to have arrived at a stage when we perfectly and completely accept the will of God.

The idea of being a child of God; in one sense, this is a tremendous privilege. To those who believe, there is given the power to become God's children (John 1:12). The very essence of being a child of God is necessarily obedience. We cannot without any reality say that we love a person and then do things which hurt and grieve that person's heart. This relationship is a privilege, but a privilege which is entered into only when full obedience is given.

The idea behind eternal life is the idea of a certain quality of life. What kind? Eternal life is the kind of life that God lives; it is God's life. To enter into eternal life is to enter into possession of that kind of life which is the life of God. It is to be lifted up above merely human, transient things into that joy and peace which belong only to God. This close fellowship with God we only render to him when we enter into that love, that reverence, that devotion and that obedience which truly brings us into fellowship with him.

Here then, we have three great related conceptions-- entry into the kingdom of heaven, becoming children of God and eternal life-- and all are dependent on and are the products of perfect obedience to the will of God. It is just here that the idea of being reborn comes in. It is quite clear that, as we are and in our own strength, we are quite unable to render to God this perfect obedience; it is only when God's grace enters into us and takes possession of us and changes us that we can give to him the reverence and the devotion we ought to give. It is through Jesus Christ that we are reborn; it is when he enters into possession of our hearts and lives that the change comes.

Water and the Spirit stand for the cleansing and the strengthening power of Christ, which wipes out the past and gives victory in the future.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is the spirit. Human beings by themselves are flesh, and their power is limited to what the flesh can do. The very essence of the Spirit is power and life which are beyond human power and human life.

Consider water. Consider fire.
It is like saying, if one is born to purity, and one is born to love, one will find God. It means nothing more than this.
Baptism is a ritual. And is only as meaningful as the meaning to the receiver.
What is important is love. Not ritual. But if the ritual helps one, it helps, if it does not help one, it does not help. What is important is love.
So when God said, 'you offer me sacrifices and incense, but where is your love'.

But those who are bound to ritual are bound to belief in their own love. But if love were upon them they would need no ritual. It is like training wheels to love, is setting your clock and going to church on time. When love is and never was religion, but just a formulated way of discovering love for some who require the bell to ring and the hymn to sing. Yet those that follow A, fight with those that follow B. So this is neither love.

When you will understand, is when you will love. As love unlocks the key to truth. Yet those that do not understand will say they understand for fear of love. For love opens doors to pain as it opens also doors to joy.

Uma,
I'd never thought of it that way before... Energy like 3 states of water: vapour (spirit), liquid (mind) & ice (body)... Thanks for that insight.
It also reminds me of something else... Have you heard the saying, "Many are called, but few are chosen... & why are they not chosen, because they set their hearts on the things of men instead of God." (or something like that)
I heard a quote that kindof goes with what you wrote, "Many are cold, but few are frozen." :smile:

Shim,
I like what you mentioned, makes the kingdom of God more real, not some place in the sky.
I also like the scripture about becoming as children... to live in & enjoy each moment & love more freely.

Whiteride,
Your analogy of training wheels makes sense. Thanks. I'm trying to appreciate & respect this ritual-filled religion that I no longer completely believe in, & your analogy helps.
I believe that love (& learning to love well) is our purpose.
Would you clarify & expand on what you mentioned about love unlocking the key to truth... & fear of love?

Dear perspective,

Thank you for being the way you are.
Thank you for your question:
This also might help you, in not being anti-anything. Even though it is better to not be anti-human, it is better to be anti-human before anti-subject.
So once you can focus narrower to just sort people by people, as they come, without prejudice, then you can work on trying to love the people you are anti to as well, as per the darkness in them.
Forget the religion. Feel the energy of the person.
Forget the colour. Feel the energy of the person.
Forget the policeman. Feel the energy of the policeman.
Forget the politics. Feel the energy of the politician.
Forget the general. Feel the energy of the soldier, but do not shoot him down, throw hot or cold water over him.

The more you find love inside you. The more you will become a target to those who fear love. You will be picked on. Abused. Etc. So you build up an amour. And become like them to a degree. Those that abuse your love.

If you were pure love and a man. You would turn straight men gay.
Innocence attracts the sexual desire out of the best of men.

Now this gives you an idea for how love is a danger.

However, if you take upon the fear of your love, that others have, you can hold a fear within you that repels them.

Everybody fears love. God is love.
Yet everybody wants love. God is love.

Truth comes from love. Truth comes from God.
So when you love what is love, in loving those around you.
Truth is opened to you.
When your mind is clear, and peace is in your heart.
Truth knocks on the door.
It sees what it has seen.
It sees what should have been.
It sees what should be.

So as the light is reflected with love, love being a key to peace, the peace to find a clear reflection, you can see the light.

You see the dark light of the past. And can reflect the light into a coloured window, to change that light. By seeing the light of the past through the cloud of tears, and turn into a rainbow, you can see the pot of gold of the future. In knowing that the true way to act and be.

With love inside you, you may put your eye on anything and everything and look at it in a new light.

You may look at the sun even. And say this does me no harm, as this is my glorious light.

You might look at the wind and wonder about it. And consider what it is. It is not just wind. What is wind?

You might think about when you were a child and you feared the dark, so much to you shivered and became cold.

You might also think about how now you walk through the dark yet with tension in your muscles to fight off the cold.

Which is different? I see none, but a child's view and an adult's view.

A child lives and knows their fears. They love yet are protected.
Adults must find their own protection, by living and forgetting much of what is true, and making complex ideas to protect themselves from others. This happens automatically, subconsciously.

If you can find the love within you, yet also the strength to fight the fear of what the love must make you face. Any truth can be known to you.

You eat from the tree of knowledge.
But the tree of life is love, and faith in love. Strength to face fear of love.
And never will you get to the top of either tree unless you love.
Yet, strength is a part of love, faith is a part of love, truth is a part of love.
All is within love.
Yet definitions of one person fly far from the other person.
For they consider themselves truth and love.
So with humility you begin.

I am nothing before love.
Before the spirit of love.
Love that which is God.

That is how I began.
I love God.
And God loves me.

The love I find is the love I receive.
Through love do I ask for love.
Through love do I begin.

Through love I fear others, yet love them anyway through that fear.

Love is fear.
Fear is love.
Until love is love.
And fear is fun.

Yet what is Good?
And what is Bad?

A little fear is good.
Much love is good.

God is not so simple. Is love, is fear.

God is what God will be.

Ultimately, truth begins by ending the truth as you see.
By being born again into a love of knowing.

Not knowing money.
Not knowing culture.
Not knowing greed.
Not knowing envy.
Not knowing jealousy.
Not knowing yesterday.
Not knowing today.
Not knowing tomorrow.

But knowing the spirit of God.
The spirit of God knowing you.
So that you are one with God.
And God one with you.
Then you are Good and eternal.

Knowing no time.
No night.
No day.

Being a vessel of good, a chalice of God, the water within, waving as you wish to wave, twirling as you wish to swirl, flowing as you wish to row, surfing as you wish to breeze.

To being I am who I am. By knowing who is love, who was love, and who will be love. That love being you inside. As that love being me inside. And all that love being God.

Those who project much fear and hate upon love, fear to face their wrongs. Fear losing their power. Fear being at the bottom, for when now they are high.

Love is kept low by fear.

Yet a little fear is Good. As God is not one colour.

I hope you find something in my answers. I try to give as much as I can, without giving so much, as to not be heard at all.

Peace.

Thank you for your kindness, Whiteride - touched my heart. :smile:
Whiteride, that's so timely - a lot of what you wrote is what I needed to hear, actually. For a while, I've been subtly upset about the idea that everything is illusion, & yet it feels needed. You helped me reconcile that some & I appreciate it.
I'd guess this fight or repelling against love is based on misunderstandings of love. Love can be defined, expressed & interpreted countless ways.

I never really realized it, but i think you're right - how ironic, but it's true, that we both fear & want love. We fear the truth, which unconditional love (God) is... yet we want to feel loved & to love.

Beautiful! It's like when you're in love & everything looks so beautiful!
There's a philosopher (don't remember which one) that said something like "Children wouldn't know 'good' or 'evil' if they could somehow continue as they start." Yet I think that they do need some instruction & guidance. Our nature is to survive, to look out for ourselves. If left to ourselves, we'd only care for ourselves.

I like what you mentioned about using love to face fears.

We're created physically (& I'd guess spiritually too) litterally, by love.
Wow - I never realized how intertwined love & fear are.
Good & bad is relative... & would likely change, when we see the big picture. IMO, God is inspiration, resonating, progress... which can involve both love & fear.

Like story of Moses, God said, "I am that I am"... & Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth & the light" - & also that the kingdom of God is within, not externally.
I don't like to be wrong... especially in the eyes of others, because I give myself enough of a hard time, besides receiving someone else's evil eye...
I've often fought or denied so much about me, especially negative feelings. But I'm learning that these uncomfortable feelings can be keys to peace, by compassionately exploring the thoughts that produce them.

At first when I read your post, I kindof argued it mentally, thinking about the scripture, "Perfect love casteth out fear" - so I thought, how could fear & love co-exist? But it is perfect, unconditional love that doesn't involve fear. I don't know anyone capable of that yet. I do, however know many who love as well as they can, because of, or in spite of fear.
Yes, I did, thank you. :smile:

Whiteride,
One more thought... along those same lines...
"Love covereth a multitude of sins" (1 Peter 4:8)
IMO sin is simply incorrect thinking. Thoughts are powerful - so in a way, fear could be sin, which can even cause physical illness.
& it's not something to be ashamed of, as much as to be corrected.

Discovering new scriptural perspectives has been so exciting for me!
I realize that any book (including scriptures) has influences only to the degree that we resonate with it. I acknowledge the controversial history of the scriptures. I also believe that we all (including scriptural authors) have a degree of truth & light to share. And since, the scriptures are like my bridge between my beliefs & many of those I love, I feel the need to understand possible deep truths within the scriptures. Some of the following scripture interpretations, I’ve learned by reading “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle.

Quote:

“Blessed is he that readeth, & they that hear the words of this prophecy, & keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” – Rev 1:3 ”Master saith, My time is at hand.”-Matthew 26:18 ”Time only is measured unto men.” –Alma 40:8

Although there may be prophesy, nothing supersedes God, or the kingdom of God within… which can ONLY be experienced in the only present moment.

Quote:

“Then shall the kingdom of heaven (WITHIN) be likened unto 10 virgins, which took their lamps, & went forth to meet the bridgegroom” –Matthew 25:1

Some had enough oil & some weren’t prepared – representing consciousness.

Quote:

”Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh…Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.” – Mark 13:35-36

I used to assume this meant the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ – but it represents consciousness, or unconscioussnes… awareness/light or blindness/dark. Jesus said in Luke 17: to not look if people say the kingdom of God has come here or there, because the kingdom of God is WITHIN you.
At the heart, sin is incorrect thinking, IMO.

And parables that seem to speak of the end of the world are referring to what Tolle wrote: “the end of psychological time…
God said: ‘I AM THAT I AM.’ No time here, just presence.
The ‘second coming’ of Christ is a transformation of human consciousness, a shift from time to presence, from thinking to pure consciousness, not the arrival of some man or woman… [Luke 15 The prodigal son story] describes a journey from unconscious perfection, through apparent imperfection & “evil” to conscious perfection.”

Quote:

”For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, & lose his own soul?” –Mark 8:36 “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.” – Matt 6:22

Just as the ego is part of the spiritual package, so is the body – not to be denied, but not to be the sole identity either... & the soul (or spiritual part of us) is that which is our more constant, eternal self.

Jesus told the parable of the 1 man who built his house on a rock & another who built his house on the sand & when the rain floods & wind came, the house on sand fell. -Matthew 7:24-27
The rock represents being grounded WITHIN… so hardship won’t collapse our sense of identity.
When grounded within, we realize the essence of who we are is eternal.

A scripture (which one?) tells, “Before you enter the temple, forgive.” There is also an lds temple ceremony that invites only those with the best of feelings.

Quote:

1Cor3 tells, “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, & that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Before you can be present, you must allow what is to be... acceptance, not resistance.
Forgiveness = Given to go forward. Tolle wrote, “Forgiveness is to offer no resistance to life – to allow life to live through you.”

Quote:

“Jesus knew their thoughts… a house divided against itself shall not stand.” (Matt 12:25) “Master will not suffer his house to be broken up.” (D&C 104:86)

When our minds are everywhere but within us, aware of our bodies, then other, less healthy feelings & tensions can be there instead.

Tolle wrote, “The Unmanifested does not liberate you until you enter it consciously. That’s why Jesus did not say: the truth will make you free, but rather:

Quote:

‘You will know the truth, & the truth will make you free.” (John 8:32)

It refers to the fact that the soul must go through physical embodiment through woman and activate/awaken/manifest the Spirit in their life if they wish to be reborn within God.

It says that through the Logos, we all we become born not of flesh, nor of man's will, but of God.

Meaning in order for us to be like Jesus, and the way Jesus became the Christ was through previous physical incarnations. They refer to levels of consciousness.

Jesus in his past life became associated with the Logos, he became perfected, divine, and Christ. And when he came as Jesus, he came as our Teacher, Guide, and master back to the Father.

Hi Amilius,
Thanks for your comments.
As I heard Christmas songs & saw symbols about Mary & baby Jesus this season, I've thought about being reborn within God.
What you meantioned about Jesus reminded me of a book you might be interested in, "Putting on the Mind of Christ" by Jim Marion.

More scriptures & notes... (again, much inspiration from Eckhart Tolle)

Quote:

John 16:33 “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” 1 John 4:8: “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: & this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; & even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, & have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.”

Tolle interprets it: “Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God...
You know that every form is destined to dissolve again & that ultimately nothing out here matters all that much. You have ‘overcome the world.”
IMO, "antichrist" is "anti-awareness" & Christ is light, love & awareness.

Quote:

“But lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven (WITHIN), where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” – Matt 6:20,21

Other scriptures that aren’t in orthodox canon – (quoted by Tolle)...
“All that is, is holy.”
“Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up a stone, & you will find me there.” – Gospel of Thomas
If everything is holy, one might assume that happiness lies outside, but it doesn’t – it’s within. This world is filled with inspiration & beauty! But “beauty is in the eye & heart/mind/soul of the beholder.” It’s not so much what we resonate with as the resonating or spirit, itself.

I used to think that “Turning the other cheek” (Matt 5 & Luke 6) meant being a door-mat. But it’s more about acceptance of the truth others experience & turning the other cheek within. Since the kingdom of God is within, most scriptural lessons are speaking of internal (not external) learning & transformations.

Quote:

“But one thing is needful: & Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.” (Luke 10:42)

What one thing is needful? That being within us we feel by surrendering to the moment.
Can you experience anything but NOW? You can't experience the past or future, except by thinking about it now.

Quote:

“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” ( Matt 5:5)

Tolle: “…spiritual energy. It belongs to a different order of reality & will create a different world when a sufficient # of humans enter the surrendered state & so become totally free of negativity. If the Earth is to survive, this will be the energy of those who inhabit it.”

Quote:

“the peace of God, which passeth all understanding” (Phil 4:7)

This peace is knowing that the essence of us all - lives forever.

What’s the 1st of the 10 commandments? (Exodus 20)

Quote:

“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

“Surrender – is the end of the mind as your master, the impostor pretending to be ‘you,’ the false god.” - Tollle

I’ve often been concerned about the “last days” prophesies & all of the hardship that is fortold. But as Tolle explains, for many, the only way of awakening is through extra suffering. We don’t have to believe & create with belief in more suffering – it’s enough to deal with realizing our own illusions.

Quote:

“Forgive them for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34)

“Choice implies consciousness – a high degree of consciousness.” - Tolle

Your post on the Mind of Christ. Christ as awareness and light, anti-christ as anti-awareness, darkness, and unconsciousness is purely the Truth!

This is the real Christianity taught by the Master Jesus.

When God said- "let there be light!" It meant that God through the eternal sound "Aum/Amen" spake and came Universal Awareness or Consciousness. This One Consciousness projected from the Father is the Christ or Logos. And from this consciousness were spirits, portions or pieces of this One.

This is the Christ that was within Jesus. The Christ, the universal consciousness of love came through Enoch the Initiate, Melchizedek the High Priest King, Guatma the enlightened one, Moses the deliver of the Jews, and Jesus who became the Christ for our sake.

Thank you, Amilius.
It is just amazing to realize! It is also amazing that I didn't see it before... & others still don't see it, or realize it!
Tradition... & maybe hanging on to the more "concrete" "image" of Jesus.

Thanks for being so broad-minded, but I guess Eckhart Tolle has his career and bank account to take care of. Listen, all who make money out of spirituality, I understand that money is hard to get. The government does not give enough unemployment benefits to suit your needs. You use your brain to make money from us, but at least we learn something.

If you looked close enough at anyone's lifestyle or employment choice, you could always find "wrong."
I get your point & I don't believe in spirituality being sold either... But I'm more concerned with churches claiming one's salvation depends on tithing payments rather than someone writing an inspiring book.
I believe tithings should go primarily to those who suffer, not so much for a church's bank account. Still, I realize churches need to pay bills - even just the upkeep of the building they meet in.

Anyway...
For Christmas, I got a book about the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Before I read it, I wanted to brainstorm what atonment means...
Atone: to make amends, to make "at one" (nondual! All are connected! :smile: )
Atonement: (1 definition:) to aquire qualities of God, to be in agreement

I also thought about a scripture that puzzled me a few years back. In Sunday School we read, Moses 6:57 "Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time."
I asked the teacher, "How could Jesus have come in the meridian of time - since he came 2,000 years ago & human history has been going since at least 4,000BC - & we are now aprox 2,000 AD, in the 'last days'?"
He told me to go study it & report back.
I realized "meridian" means the most significant time - like a climax of a story.

Now, I'm realizing it's NOW! :smile: Now is the most significant time, becuase it's all there is - all that we can experience, the only way to be "at one."
I'm sure I'll learn more... especially about repenting (correcting thinking) to be more in agreement with God.

This ^ is awesome, Racer! :hug3:

Tolle's notion of dropping one's ego is like a dying of self. Same notion. Baptism = shed the ego and become who you really are...spiritually awake.

Thus John 3:5 kinda says the same thing.

Not as in-depth of a post as some on the topic, but I was recently drawn to its meaning...and especially in contrast to criticisms of the faith that suggest strict literal interpretations and the challenges therein.

Thanks for your comments, Steve & Dilchannan. :smile: I'm learning to see the ego differently... even within the ego, there's good & a necessary part that shouldn't die...
I agree most concepts in the bible are parables & not meant to be taken literally... but the "spirit of the law" - which is what Jesus was trying so hard to teach.

Maybe the symbolism of baptism is the death of sin (which I consider to be thinking distortions). In my church, people actually believe that the moment the 8-year-old child comes out of the water, they are washed clean of sins. Actually, they're just beginning to have thinking distortions! lol But baptism is a symbolic reminder which that child will have their entire lives - to try to clean up their thinking, which will also clean up their feelings & behavior.

I found some of the following scripture interpretations from "You're All That!" by Paula White

Quote:

Genesis 32:24-32 Jacob “wrestled with God & God asked, “What is your name?”

God knew, but he wanted Jacob to confront his identity. Back then, names were more self-fulfilled prophesies. Jacob would not let God go until He blessed him – until something good came out of the wrestling.
God responded by changing his name from Jacob (which meant manipulating thief) to Israel (worthy & prevailing contender).
“Getting alone with God is not an escape. It’s a way to confront what we need to confront & to grow! …when you seek to spend time by yourself, you are also spending time with God.” Also, through spending more time with God & our higher self, we change how we see ourselves.

Quote:

Romans 8:28 “all things work together for good to them that love God”

Even our weaknesses can be turned into strengths…
When I pray, things always go smoother.

Quote:

Matt 22:37,39 “…love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, & with all thy soul, & with all thy mind….Love thy neighbor as thyself.”

It didn’t just say to love God with your heart & soul… but it also included your mind… aka EGO! Lol Maybe the greatest commandment includes harmonizing the "ego" & higher self!
Only recently did I realize the bible preaches the 2nd greatest commandment is to love yourself… not just others.

Quote:

1Cor. 12:21,27 - “And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.” “Now ye are the body of Christ & members in particular.”

United, though each has unique spiritual gifts given…
Society really works this way… each has their own job, to benefit everyone…
Spiritually, we also have our own job/talents to benefit everyone… & all are necessary.

Quote:

John 5:1-9 Man, who was sick for 38 years, layed on a bed by pool at Bethesda (believed to be healing water for 1st person in water after “angelic” bubbling) Jesus asked, “Do you want to be made well?”

May seem silly to ask, but some people choose illness over wellness. The man didn’t answer but gave excuse that, nobody would help him to the pool & someone always beat him to the pool after the bubbling water.
We also stay on our own “beds” that keep us from healing…
Limiting labels, poor assumptions, pessimism, impossible standards, comparison – basically thinking distortions (sin = incorrect thinking)

Quote:

Psalm 23 1-3 “The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness…”

Sometimes it takes pain that finally “makes us lie down” & be lead (through meditation) beside still waters, to be restored & to seek after & follow after righeousness.

Quote:

John 4:5-42 “Jesus answered & said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whoseoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Jesus talks to a Samarian woman at the well… He “told her all things that she ever did” & knew that she had been married 5 times before & was now with someone she wasn’t married to… in other words, he knew she was trying to find inner fulfillment through external means (different partners)… & that she could find inner fulfillment through applying/internalizing his teachings.

Interpretation is just that, interpretation. We bring along all that we know and have experienced. What we see as important, others do not. Most see only the shallow. A few see past the allegory to the deeper truths.

Ego, like satan or the devil, has gotten a bad wrap. Personal desire can be selfish or egotistical. But when desire is Immaculately Conceived, it is God's will.

Wow! Well put!

Continued...

Quote:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, & with all thy soul, & with all thy mind…Thou shalt love they neighbor as thyself. On these 2 commandments hang all the law & the prophets. (Matt 23:37-40)

Priority is love of God… God is love & IMO our purpose is to learn to love others & ourselves well. I also like how it includes heart, soul & mind… not just the spiritual or emotional or intellectual – but all of us.

:love7: God supplied daily manna (Exodus 16:35), Similarly, we need to trust God to meet our needs, especially of love.

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“What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe tha tye receive them, & ye shall have them.” (Mark 11:24)

Belief with feeling attracts & is powerful!

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Take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day (Eph 6:13)

Unlike fleeting moods & emotions, faith is intended to be steadfast & unwavering.

:love9: After Jonathan & Saul were killed, a nurse picked up young Mephibosheth (Jonathan’s son) & ran to what she perceived to be a safe place. But he fell, which left him crippled. The nurse wasn’t strong enough to carry him.

Similarly... "People in your life may not have been strong enough to carry you either, or to give you the love & affirmation you needed. Ultimately, only God is strong enough to carry you all the time, in all situations, & to a place of unchanging security. Trust God to do so."

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“For my yoke is easy, & my burden is light” (Matt 11:30)

We each have a yoke to carry…responsibilities, but especially beliefs that can make responsibilities even heavier. When we find love/God & inner peace, our load is lighter.

:icon_sunny: Parable of the talents (Matt 25:14-30) We become poor stewards of our own energy & talents when we take on unnecessary loads.

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Let your conversation be without covetousness; & be content with such things as ye have: for he that said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Deut 4:30 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matt 6:21) Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)

Always wanting more, trying to fill the void, quiet or trying to satisfy addictions – will never satisfy the hunger in our souls, which can only be satisfied by God/inner peace & LOVE.

:love9: Jesus asked Martha to “show” him where the source of her sorrow, Lazareth’s dead body was. (John 11:34)

Similarly, when we sorrow, we need to search for the source.

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As he thinketh in his heart, so is he (Proverbs 23:7) Whatsoever things are true…honest…just…pure…lovely…of good report…& if there be any virtue, any praise, think on these things. (Phil 4:8)

While progress involves searching for the source of sorrow to protect or heal, we need to keep an uplifting focus, because we become as we think & feel.

In church & lately there's been a lot of focus on the atonement.
Traditionally, the atonement is where faith in Jesus' ability to save us reconciles us to God. For all of the attention, there isn't much mention of the word in scripture - only in Leviticus 4:26,31 - regarding animal sacrifice. And 2Nephi 5:7,26 & Mosiah 13:28 - speak of Jesus as the sacrifice.

Why the "scapegoat"?
What do they want? Why is human sacrifice of Jesus so accepted & believed in?
To be saved, to feel loved, not alone, to fill the void inside.
Before, they looked externally for animals to bear their sins... & still are with Jesus.
IMO, Jesus was strying to teach that the kingdom of God is within (not externaly - not even in him). Luke 17

At-one-ment... "setting at one of those who have been estranged & denotes the reconciliation of man to God."
or...harmonizing ego & inner self! :smile:
"Sin [incorrect thinking] is the cause of the estrangement, & therefore the purpose of the atonement is to correct or overcome the consequences of sin...
the atonement is conditional, however, so far as each person's individual sins are concerned, & touches everyone to the degree tha the has faith in [GOD/LOVE], repents of his sins, & obeys the gospel.

2Nephi 2:11: "there must be opposition in all things"
Yin & yang.. life is full of opposites... to be reconciled or harmonized.

We're individual & can only exerience anythign ourselves personally, yet we're connected ot everyone & can resonate with all because all is divine/divinely created.
We increase our spiritual frequency by desiring good, yet we're not perfect & may attach to anything temporal (even if good) & that can decrease our spiritual frequency.
We can't help but progress, yet sometimes progress involves stepping back to feel buried feelings.
We can't help but experience illusions/problems/ego - & these keep us from experiencing our true essence & yet they're also tools to experiencing our whole essence & to progress.
Without suffering, we don't fully appreciat joy.
Pain seems to be important - not something anyone seeks, but not something to avoid or deny either.

Hey there,

צְדָקָה Tzedakah Strong's number 6666, was the same word both for righteousness and almsgiving. Giving alms and to be righteous gained merit in the sight of God, and was to even win atonement and forgiveness for past sins. Matthew 6:1-4.


Perspective, was it the human aspect of Jesus Christ that was believed to win atonement? In consideration of the sovereign God why was the Son sent? In Romans 1:18-23 Paul had thought about the relationship with God into which people can enter through faith. Was there any sacrifice that could appease the wrath of God other than the sacrifice He had provided? Was it not through the sacrificial death of His Son, Jesus Christ the perfect sacrifice that they then can be reconciled? 1 John 4:10


In church last Sunday some convicting questions were asked. Is the Lord concerned with those who are against Him (the Ninevites)? Sailors were told that the sea would calm if they would just throw Jonah overboard. But they tried one last time to do it their way.

The main point, in directing thoughts is in so that they might instead have peace and rest in what the Lord says, no matter how bad the situation looks -- it looked pretty bad to Jonah. But instead they chose to rebel. What does their rebellion look like? What have they done or are doing that is affecting others? How much are they like that?


Very nice Perspective,

Pain & suffering are indicators to let us know when we are in danger of sickness & death maybe even to teach them just how precious life is.

Hi Shim,
It's good to hear from you. :smile: Thanks.
I hope you have been happy & healthy.

Yeah, I do think pain is something to get our attention - not to dwell on it, but to change, to improve in some way.

This scripture is in the Book of Mormon... which I realize not all consider to be scripture, yet to me, scripture is anything truthful or good. And also, as I mentioned, I'm trying to harmonize what I'm learning spiritually with what many of those I love believe. I don't see scripture (including Adam & Eve) as historical, but more as symbolic, or to be "likened" to us. So, the fall of Adam, I consider the "veil of forgetfullness" or illusion we experience.
And what is it that we really, deep down, want?
JOY!!
We may stumble on trying to get real joy, but that's our goal!

I like that quote. I have never read the book of Mormon, and I must admit I think it is prejudices keeping me from doing so.

I think we have too many religions in this world. It would be best if we could create a universal belief system, and force the entire populace to adhere to it one way or another.

That is something that people seem to be striving for, both internally and externally. Even governments are trying, or so I've read... some think this is bad, some think it will be good... I don't personally know.

Tragblack,
Thanks for your positivity. Yeah, I can understand about not having read it - there are a lot of other religious "scriptures" I've never read either. Zeliar, Are you kidding?

=
I was thinking more about that scripture... We "are that we may have joy" - Our desire is joy - which is practically the same as truth & love. Real, lasting joy is based on truth - because anything else is changing.

Of course, we can be aware of our natural, almost inevitable tendancy to illude ourselves - yet that awareness shouldn't stop us from exploring, searching & striving for what's best - for joy, truth & love.

Like in "Tuesdays with Maurie" - he kept saying, "Love one another or die" - I think he meant if we don't love, then we spiritually die.

One more that someone else inspired:
I think it's in Exodus - where Moses is talking to God, who identifiies him/herself as "I am that I am" ...
To know oneself takes alot of work - but that work can help us accomplish our purpose: to love ourselves & others more.

Someone is going to do that. Revelation 13:1-4 says,

And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”

If you read the rest of the chapter you will find that this worship is enforced by requiring everyone to take a mark in order to buy or sell.

Do you really think this will be better than what we have now?

Nope, bad translation.

בשלום
Peter

Rabbio,
To each his own.
I never claimed that my interpretations of scripture are the only way.
Sorry if I didn't make that more clear...
I think there are countless ways of interpretting anything.
How do you interpret that scripture?

The way I look at God is an internal relating... Of course, God is probably outside of this universe, incomprehensible to us... but the God we relate to is within.
So the scripture, "I am that I am", to ME, means...

To know oneself takes alot of work - but that work can help us accomplish our purpose: to love ourselves & others more.

What is the correct translation?

It is the deity's own first articulation of His identity in the world. And is informing Moses and the rest of the world the form in which humans will know it forever after.