Do you actually believe 2k year persevation?
 

Do you actually believe that what someone lived and said 2+ thousand years ago, is accurately perserved, at all?

How?

i think god can do anything he wants, including impart meanings that many men will have an attitude towards...

I can read one book, that is very popular, and recent, and I will be able to read it one thousand times, and I will have 1 thousand different interpretations of that one book alone.

I can watch a painting and experience a new painting every single time I look at it.

I can watch a movie, a thousand times, and experience thousand different movies.

If I were responsible for translating them. I could translate it 1 million times, and I still woulden't be able to say which one is the most accurate one, FOR MY SELF. Let alone for 8 billion people who all have 5 billion unique perspectives per second, every single and each one of them.

And then consider a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation, to infinity and beyond.

It's not just many men with unique attitudes toward meanings. It's even one single person who can have endless many attitudes towards one meaning.

Not to mention everything changes. Including language.

And what about the intention of every single translator, or the intention of those they are translating it for.


Even in very new books and well known, there are always many flaws in the book. But even without those flaws. What about the meaning of words and what they mean as translated over different languages and 2 thousand years of translations upon translations. How could even the original book be accurately understood. Let alone endless translations of translations of it?

When listening to nonduality speakers, I experience all of them, in english, to use english words, with IMMENSE unique meanings, on one word alone. I could listen to 20 years of content from one person, and not only do their usage of words chsnge, same words mean different things over 20 years. But one single word, can have meaning to the speaker that will requires 40 lifetimes of immense explanation to really get close and near to the accurate understanding of one single word used by one single speaker in one single moment in time.

your choice: believe in the limitations men place on themselves and each other, all the meanness that happens and the freedoms that are abrogated, or believe in a God who can and will overcome all those limitations in the best possible way. Even if that means I have to wait a while for it to happen.

Personally I think it foolish to believe in men, over believing in God, but that is just me.

I agree with that.

Do you believe the bible/torah/quran are from God, and if so, how did it get from God on to paper?

Is there some kind of angel that does updates on the book? Or is it all human made?

And what about the idea that these books are the final message?

I personally do love Abraham's story, so I am interested in all three books. ofcourse.

Ewwerin, you raise some good questions. I can generally not answer most of them but I happened to check out the gospel of John recently. Researchers consider it written by one of the 12 disciples, which makes it a reasonably plausible eyewitness report, and the dating of the language used etc indicates it is written some decades after Jesus' death. Realistically it could all have been written down from memory many years after the relevant events, or have been dictated to someone else who memorized it, then someone else, then someone finally showed up who could read and write and had time and inclination to do the job. I doubt even a single quote in the gospel is word by word correct but I am willing to buy that the end result contains some factual descriptions.

And then, of course, fast forward to the great meeting in Massa in year 600 (iirc) where all the leaders and scholars of the christian movements showed up and brought every religious paper they could find with them. Everything was pored through, everything was discussed, and then they voted and made a selection of texts that fit reasonably well together and called it a holy book. Everything else, all the gospels and stories and letters that didn't fit in with the project goals, was burned. So noone should be able to read them and ask questions. To me that's one of the worst things christianity did to itself. Did we really need more book burnings of priceless invaluable antique documents?

Since then we have had translation after translation, update after update. I can accept that since the older versions have for the most part survived, if only in a few samples of each.

As far as I see it, every word in every holy book that ever existed was written down by a human, and every word was vetted by a series of powerful people before they made it into the book. Can't have anything that rocks the boat, can we? But that does not mean that the original writer didn't witness things, see things, hear things, that he didn't believe one hundred percent as he wrote them down.

Written by Man for Man as a 'Guide'.

King James Bible - Philippians 4:8 ►
" Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Think on these virtues and put them into practice..... Imo only.

Wow, thanks. That's a very comprehensive perspective.
Thank you for sharing that.

Those burning of books, yeah it does sound like a big waste, if only they knew how much worth it would become in the future, haha. Or maybe some did know and hidd books.

I remember a funny story about a religious minority who hidd their holy books inside their home walls, when they were constructing the house and laying the cement, they placed a holy book literally inside the cement wall. Not even a safe or box. Literally inside of the cement. :D

And during the demolishing it was found.

Makes sense to me. "The holy book of ... is the foundation stone of our faith and home." Pretty powerful symbolism.

God seems to let humans do and say whatever they want. If I was God I would stop all violence in the world. I'd change so much! I'd make every weapon disappear. Make all pollution disappear. Get rid of hunger in the world and so on. I would not let one person ever harm another. I would end illness and suffering.

I think we have a lot of writings from 2000 years ago that are accurate and some that are not.

I know of a faith or religion called bahai or something. They claimed God did not stop speaking and one man claimed to be the messenger of God and then iran banned it, not considering it real.
And it was given a home in Israel.


____
One of the most mindblowing recent messenger of God, I have lost in the internet. He was literally a radio for God. A human biological radio for God. I have never ever in my life witnessed anything like that ever. And been trying to find it again. It is not of any of the famous or well known people in India. But he was a bit brownish skin tone, he shaved his head I think. Surrounded by students from abroad wearing white clothing, asking questions. I'm not sure if this is the God Radio Man.

Of the God Radio man I remember he was speaking on a panel behind one of those long tables where many people sit for Q&A. He was sitting there I think all the way the first person to the camera.

This is all I can vaguely remember. And ofcourse I assume it is india and he looked like he was from india, but I don't know.

I have been trying to find this person or his videos on youtube for a long time.

I can't wait for some good A.I. that helps people with youtube searches, because with the current search results, I can not get closer to this person and the video he was in. The greatest Biological God Radio Man on the planet now that I have ever witnessed. That's how I call it. I dont recall his name at all. Even a wild guess to say that the letter V was in his name. But that doesnt help. The website which was completely unrelated, where someone mentioned this person, that website no longer exists. But even when it existed I coulden't find it even there.

I hope in the future I can find this man via A.I. assisted searches. As now youtube can convert audio to text and maybe he mentioned something about radio or frequency.
It was a long time ago, so dont think watch history exists. I don't even remember the date I watched it even if the watch history would still be there. But I think I deleted my watch history in the past many times. To escape the algorythm.

I remember reading somewhere that angels asked God if God would place those horrible things on the planet or allow it, and God replied with "I know what you do not."

That is the most vague and cryptic answer I've ever heard. :D

But in terms of christianity I read about Jobb and his suffering. Worst suffering a human ever experienced it seems. 3 wise friends tried to make sense of it. And only a joyful young person knew the answer. And it was basically revealed through joy. That it was basically something very good in the process of happening. And then as joy opened the knowledge, it also revealed Gods perspective as an extension of joyful perspective capable of receiving direct communion with God and its perspective. It seems like they definitely studied law of attraction in those days or this was a law of attraction study case. But most of that wasn't perserved

But I agree with you, as obviously "I dont know what God knows." :D
Some secret reason for all those bad things.

WhiteWarrior,

Symbolically the book that we trust and rely on is the one that we write. It is the accumulation of everything that we have read, experienced or thought. This is the well we drink from. What should be the purpose of our writing ? If it is to convince others is that not a product of our ego ? For me that taints the truth and the value of it.

Instead IMO our ‘writing’ should be to teach ourselves……a process of refining to produce silver and gold. This process of purification removes the distractions which might have once been attractions or attachments.

Sometimes you can surprise yourself. I remember reading that Martin Buber once said that by reading his own book that it revealed things that he had not been conscious of when he wrote it. Spirit informed…..with the exception of Jesus….cannot this be true of much of Scripture and other sacred writings ? For me, Jesus is the exception because I attribute total awareness to Him.

i find that the fact the bible also says god is going to let people believe what they want doesn't impact the idea that god can do anything he wants... unless you are going to say mankind has completely obliterated all trace of anything he ever wanted said with their wantonness of wanting things to be a certain way? But I certainly don't find things that way...

as far as 'if i were god' people have no clue in my mind what they would do if they actually had the knowledge god has... my own projection is that any of us that could get it would end up doing exactly what he is doing anyway, and just sitting through everyone's complaints that the way he is doing things is just awful on the basis that the person in question has knowledge and maybe abilities not available to anyone else, and 'DOES INDEED KNOW BETTER THAN ANY OTHER BEING IN EXISTENCE DESPITE THEIR CONSTANT PROTESTATIONS TO THE CONTRARY'.

Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with that way of life, it is bad enough we had to subject HIM to it I think. But since he is there and i am here, i'd rather just accept he is there and is doing what he is doing for whatever good reasons he has for doing it, and quit complaining about how I'm not getting my own way with the way the world is going and blah blah blah...

Isn't that 'free will' that some believe in and relish ?

Snipped your post but basically I agree on much or most of it. However much writing is an attempt to communicate a message for various purposes. Any advertisement commercial or political or religious tries to come across as entertaining, earnest and truthful, and then it is up to us to read it with a discerning eye and seek out the truth. There is quite a lot of bad stuff you can end up with if you always take writing at its face value. Especially if you close your eyes to the bits that have discreetly been omitted.

You have a very poetic way of speaking. I like your perspective, thanks for sharing it.

so as maisy corrected me in a later post, the bible says in several places that god basically lets us do and think what we want... there is a safety net IO think so it isn't disastrous other than we always start not liking our lot again at some point....

but sometimes in the past he 'gave us' messages in a language we think we understand... but the response to those messages, including what to record in a book and what we think about what was said, is our response. Still, in times past we were so very predictable that god was able to get us to respond in ways he felt beneficial to continuation of his 'cause' whatever that is... im not sure how much that has changed by the way. There is still an awful lot of stuff going on that seems like clockwork after I've watched it a while... and certainly I'm pretty predicatable too lol... but anyway... I suppose we could always have another 'final message' if that is what we want to do... but... from what I've seen the story of jesus was all god needed to guarantee that what he wants to happen will indeed come to pass. So I don't see HIM as needing another final message, although he'll give us something if we clamour enough about what we need in that regards I suppose....

the predictable thing is also why any message god doesn't want erased won't get erased... all he has to do is harden someone's heart the way he did pharoah (for example) and make them not see what is actually being said, then they won't contend with it and be inspired to erase it or alter it in some way that doesn't serve his cause.

I think trying to find a reason a "good" God would allow such horrible behaviors to exist on earth (animals willfully and intentionally causing suffering in other animals) as well as this "good" God creating animals who do such things in the first place is one of the reasons we have religions. Humans looking for reasons to explain this stuff.

I think it's obvious humans (on earth) did not create the earth or the living things on it which begs the question who did? Thus an idea of a God or Gods. Then of course why were we created? Religions attempt explain this as well.

If you meditate on the first creation account and some of the things Jesus said, you might suspect that the Earth may have been created by 'spirit(s)' that became 'human'.

This might seem like a radical belief but didn't Jesus say we are all Gods/gods? At least in Hebrew, the Gods/gods Jesus spoke about is written Hebrew the same as the God mentioned in Genesis 1:1.

Maisy,

For me the simplest explanation is 3 words: “God is love”. For love to exist there must be one that loves and one that is loved. We must conclude that with the creation of man that ‘God saw that it was good’. God just could not help himself…..:). One man was not enough…..in fact it was inconceivable to be content with that. In that sense he enabled us to also be creators….able to reproduce……..

Some could also say that love is the answer to the question: “What is the meaning of life ?”

Imo, the meaning of life is that which we choose to give it, simple....

That roughly translates into simply trusting your ego…….IMO

Did that reply come from your ego :icon_eek:

ugh egos invested in assuming they don't exist? Why do you have to bring up THOSE horror stories? :D

We are mostly created by our own greater non-physical source consciousness, as extensions of it, as a small portion of it, as our soul, focuses into physical time space reality. The greater part of us still remains non-physical as pure positive energy. We are extensions of that. And we further create or co-create our lives as undisconnectable extensions of our greater non-physical Source Consciousness, which is always fully connected to God Source Consciousness.

But we can focus our physically extended consciousness to develop habbitual energetic thought patterns that misalign with our greater non-physical consciousness, indicated by negative emotion. As emotion indicate the vibrational relativity between you and You.

Once the habbitual thought patterns are in alignment with our greater non-physical consciousness we feel good feeling emotions. Such as joy.

But this is the human who is mostly in charge and our Soul does not really have any preference. It is simply in full service and unconditional support of its physical extension.

What you give thought/attention to becomes reality. But before something manifest, we can emotionally feel our habbitually practiced energetic thought patterns and its alignment with our greater non-physical consciousness of greater knowing. So with that primary manifestation of emotions, we have enough leaway to change our thoughts/focus, for a more beneficial physical manifestation, that first and foremost Feels better before it actually manifests and is better/more enjoyable.

Our soul will always remain in pure positive energy, and will never become less than all that you have truely become. So when we feel bad, it is because our soul will not join us in our perspective. If it did, we would feel no emotion. And when we feel good, it is because we as human extension are in alignment with our Source perspective.

It is not hard to learn how to truely become all that you truely are ment to be. It simply feels good. And as you learn to feel good first, unconditionally, then the thoughts also align and manifestations come after it aswell. That is a backdoor way in, as opposed to think endless thoughts to try and find a perspective that feels better, one can simply choose to feel better, as a priority, before thinking.

We do create our own meaning, as physical extensions of Source. But Source will never become less than all that you truely have become. So if we want to feel good, then our meanings has to match that of our Source.

It is not physical love that is the purpose. But unconditional love. That is what we are made of. And if we desire to feel good emotionally, for the sake of feeling good emotionally, then we align with our Source's consciousness. But if we say, well, first this and that... Then you lose priority. And you lose the greatest power and leverage that you can possible have as a human being. To be in vibrational alignment with Source Consciousness. That is the path of least resistance = the path of most allowance.

So if we say that our purpose is to suffer, you may experience that, but you will never feel good in believing that or practicing that habbitually practiced energetic thought pattern. Because Source will allow you to view suffering as your purpose, but because Source will never join you in that, you will always feel emotionally bad, untill you change your habbitually practiced energetic thought patterns to one that matches the greater knowing of your greater non-physical Source Consciousness.

We can live seemingly endless despair. Because Source allows us to do so. But what Source is doing, is causing you to feel despair. If Source joined you in your flawed or misaligned perspective, then you would feel no emotion at all. You may even say suffering is good and you would feel good. But such a thing never happens. Some people may feel bad and say that they feel good, because they have maybe never ever felt good to even know what that means.

But in the end, nothing means anything. We are free to suffer or enjoy. Untill we die. And come into full blown total realisation of all that we truely do want to be do or have.

If one wants to be a whole witt, it is best to align habbitually practiced energetic thought patterns with all that we want to be do or have, as is always held in vibrational escrow by our own greater non-physical source consciousness, for us.

Not for all the good things it brings with it, but for the purpose of purely feeling good, unconditionally. Regardless of any and all conditions. We have the freedom to give attention to all that we truely do want, as life helps us realise it. Not to make stuff happen. That is not the purpose of the physical extension. The purpose of the physical extension is to simply give attention to unconditional love. Energetic thought patterns of what we do want. Thinking about what is wanted, as life helps us realise it, allows for one to feel good unconditionally. Regardless of conditions. Then this energetic grid, of unconditional love/joy, will fill in with manifestations that corrolate through the path of least resistance = path of most allowance. The highest leverage and power. To be in sync with our own Greater Non-Physical Source Consciousness. Why, because it feels good and because we can. Primarily. And secondarily, because it manifests wanted things. That is just deviation or bonus/extra. Because those physical manifestations will and can never replace your connection to your Source. Unconditional Love.

All good Christians excited about scientific proof ?………..:)

It may or may not be, but it doesn't really matter, because even if it was, everyone interprets it differently anyway.

Oh yes, very excited. Theology and Science dialogues are interesting :smile:
"When faith and Science work together, people come closer to truth."
Pope Francis....

That talking snake in Genesis use to terrify me, lol..

I wonder if the snake could have been a metaphor for thought. The talking in your head! A "snake" slippery tricky talking...yea I vote it's our thoughts.

Genesis 3
1
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, `You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

Thought is more crafty than wild animals.


2
"The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,

Jesus maybe was dealing with his own thoughts in Matthew. But thought was called the devil instead of the snake... same thing?

Matthew 4

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Maybe both are just metaphors for the own talking in our own heads.

"Silence, a stilling of not only the voices outside but the inner voices, the roof brain chatter. Now, without the babble or words – inner and outer – I watch my mind, notice when a thought arises. I turn my attention inward, asking, "Who is thinking this thought?" K Snow.

Who is thinking this thought is still a awareness focusing on the roof brain chatter...! The way out cannot be dependent on ideas. Any ideas.

thoughts are a problem yes, but, I think there are also different kinds of thoughts. For example 'prideful' thoughts, or 'slothful' thoughts. Or snake-like thoughts. The latter seems to me like that whole psychology thing... what is it once you get used to an idea you start in on the reverse psychology and say maybe its opposite is even better.... then you go to reverse reverse psychology and go back to the original... and you can go down that rabbit hole simply as far as you want, thoughts twisting and turning like a snake's body.

when satan said what he said to the woman, it just seemed to me the first twist of a snake's body, instead of taking it at face value she was given 'how do you know that god is telling you the truth? Maybe he is lieing to keep something interesting away from you?'

(the buddhists or hindus or someone also had that thing about 'monkey mind' which many can relate to today I think :smile:)

Falling Leaves,

Very good….all salient observations. I don’t mind opposite viewpoints. It is easy to say something completely opposite…..but this is often presented with no logical reasoning to support such positions. It simply invites doubt. Makes it difficult to follow a path to its conclusion…..these philosophies remain the paths that have been left untried……

Oh yes I can relate :smile: I don't mind the jumping around it's the chattering that annoys me.

[ Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
The latter seems to me like that whole psychology thing... what is it once you get used to an idea you start in on the reverse psychology and say maybe its opposite is even better.... then you go to reverse reverse psychology and go back to the original]

Choices, choices. I'm like that when I open a new box of Chocolates :D

Do you actually believe 2k year persevation?

Do we have problems with writings from Aristotle, Plato, Josephesus, etc.?

I was watching the history channel and it boggles my mind, when they digg out very old wood and metallic artifacts, they know the exact purpose of the items, how they were made, what purpose they served, and the average date of the items, just by looking at it. And they show how they know. its approximately from the year 1750.

Some people have even theoratically pieced puzzles that indicate a high degree of possibility that first chinese inhabbitants were christians. When I watched this video, it blew away my mind. The proof is either mindboggling coincidence or simply undeniable proof.
https://youtu.be/DA-AkJzpKmg?si=07oI7Xd7LdrsgJz0

yeah i have two problems here, first is my own ongoing thing where if I don't watch myself i find myself disagreeing arbitrarily... well in my own defense it is much much better than it was lol :smile:

second problem for me is, shared logic only works if there is a shared platform to build on... by choosing to disagree as to what the fundamental axioms to life actually are I'm unable to present a logical case for anything i think, because without the support of appropriate axioms logic is meaningless. But what I might say based on my own perspective is unsupportable by the axioms accepted in the societal norm... and meanwhile noone is going to accept the axioms I accept until they have been 'proven' by previous logic based on the already-known axioms lol...

life is like a box of chocolates :D