The Mother or the Father? Laozi or Jesus?
 

Here’s a funny thing. Laozi is all about the mother, seek the mother, flow with the mother which is the Dao, the mother of all things. Jesus is all about the Father, seek the kingdom of the Father, do the will of the Father, establish the Father’s kingdom here on earth.

No not funny, just different words being used by different cultures :smile:

' So God created man in his own image, male and female he created them '

I think it is more than cultural differences. The Chinese recognise Yin and Yang, they recognise their inseparability, and yet they name Dao the Great mother.

For his part Jesus broke many cultural rules, and even created a word for 'God' that was unusual in Judaism, 'Abba', best translated as 'Papa'.

I think Jesus just saw further, what humanity hadn't yet seen, what was actually invisible to all up to that point, and he spoke about what he knew, and named what he knew in his own terms.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Of course it is cultural differences, you cannot compare Taoism to Christianity, Taoist don't have a God :smile:

They call the Tao Mother because the Female/Mother gives birth.



Tao gives birth to One,
One gives birth to Two,
The Two gives birth to Three,
The Three gives birth to all universal things.
All universal things shoulder the Yin and embrace the Yang.
The Yin and Yang mingle and mix with each other to beget the harmony.

I am viewing 'God the Father' as within myself, just as Jesus specified. Know Thyself in Western philosophy. But if I was to put this in Taoist terms I would say that the ultimate known 'self' must be some sort of ultimate yang attribute within. Not a yin attribute - unless you are speaking of an external force? I'm not referring to that, only to what is within.

" I am viewing 'God the Father' as within myself, just as Jesus specified "

Yes I can see that :smile:
Some realize for themselves without following the words of others ( Jesus ).
Know thy self is apt.....

" The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things."


You can see the Father as within yourself, Taoist see the Universe as within themselves ( as I do ).

It all depends on how you see God....

"The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things." This suggests there is something before 'the mother', don't you think?

"There was something undifferentiated and yet complete,
Which existed before Heaven and Earth.
Soundless and formless it depends on nothing and does not change.
It operates everywhere and is free from danger.
It may be considered the mother of the universe.
I do not know its name; I call it Tao."

This is common in many traditions.

Emptiness is the Tao in Taoism or the Father in Christianity.

The Mother is you could say the perceived motion of emptiness. It is the female aspect or energy. All things are energy and is often referred to as the Mother or female aspect.

That is why in many traditions a Divine being will have both a male and female aspect or you will see Divine beings in Yab Yum or a sexual position. It is representing the union of both the male and female aspects.

From the book, The Book of the Simple Way.

The Great Mystery neither Male nor Female.

Mother or Father ?

Many Who Think Thus wise Think of the Universe or Existence Through the Human Eye. Laozi Did not See the World as Such; Defining the Dao as the Mother For the Sake of the Myriads that Can Conceive and Give Birth, Before Which; Nothing Nothing Existed; That meaning, It Simply Hasn't Received it's Rating in The Sense of Blooming beyond the Eastern Hemisphere in it's Sociability. Being not So Widely Spread as Christianity, Taoism is still Kept in it's Purer Form then Christianity; By Ever Wimp and Mis-translation that the World of $$$Cash money and the Folly of Men Provide.

So it is Regarded a Beauty, For Which Laozi Complimented the Dao as the Mother of All Things. Regardless of How Christianity Views the Father, Christiandom has Long Butchered the Father Figure into the Extends For Which a Mother Figure Must Come in Question to a Youngling. This is the Parenting that Christiandom has brought the World into For Which i'm Glad Taoism has not been Dragged Through the Gutter as Much as Christiandom. But Even in the Trinity, their is a Mother Figure. If not even Mary, the Mother of Yeshua and Chavah (Eve) is Praised as the Mother of the Living and the Blessed; Giving them Prominence that they are Well Deserved. Perchance this is the Wrong Conclusion of Religion, When a Female is Less Valued then a Male; Tho Myself being a Male, but understanding, that a Life without a Female Mother in Perspective is no Biblical Living in itself. Hence to them who Regard; dis and Reregard. Lest you become a Chau v.n.st.c p**c*: No Pun intended.
"¡" Admonishions to them Who Understand.

As far as I know, your inner-self is androgynous.

I’ve come to the conclusion that it is mother and father, without the ‘and’ even being there, so motherfather.

Which makes me a dualist :hug:

And everyones perception is...and

Sorry I don’t understand what you mean here, likely I’m just dense :smile:

You are correct and it is beyond description.

Just common terms to help people understand.

The Mother is often in reference to energy, the creation aspect.. just like the Mother gives birth and life.

When you realize the two are one you realize the light or emptiness.

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Both cited scriptures are from the Gospel of Thomas which was never canonized.

I don't care that the church approved it or not. Maybe they didn't because it does go against what they teach.

Thank God it wasn't Canonized, they'd have twisted it inside out and back to front, it's perfect the way it is :smile:

Well said :)

Okay.

What about the following 'scripture'?

“Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.”

I have no issues with that 'scripture' but at the same time I know it is not canonized and it is offensive to some Christians even though it was written by a 'black Pope'.

That is why I wrote the source of your cited scriptures and I mentioned the scriptures were not canonized.

This is an interfaith section of the forum.

It is my faith to believe in it, to have realized many of the truths within it. You or anyone finding it offensive, is called intolerance of others beliefs. Look within instead of trying to silence or change others.

I disagree with your quote which is from the Satanic Bible.

Pretty outrageous comparison.

If you have trouble understand anything in the GOT please let me know.. it's meaning is far from anything in the satanic bible.

OMG, now that's an eyeopener, the Satanic Bible being called a Scripture. You will know them by their fruits comes to mind....

Amazing how things blow up. If you read what I wrote, I never said anything was offensive so I am not sure where you are coming from by claiming what I wrote "is called intolerance of others beliefs".

If you noticed, you cited some scriptures without stating where they came from. I cited the source ... no big deal.

I mentioned that 'scripture' from the Satanic Bible to emphasis the point that if we quote something, it might be 'nice' to cite the source. Citing the source can be looked at it as a courtesy. This way we are 'all on the same page'.

There is no reason for anybody to get upset.

If you feel I was insensitive and intolerant of your beliefs, I am sorry.

Your right, I should have provided the source. My mistake.. easier next time to just ask me to update with the source..

I hope some day we meet up.

Coffee, or whatever is on me.

Thanks for the Book of the simple Way.

This piece of writing hooked me like a hungry bass.:smile:

Some good stuff in the beginning of that book.

Got to pg. 50


Thought this was a gem.:smile:

Yes, important part and shows the difference between Taoism and Hinduism.

Actually you are incorrect.

Although Hebrew was still spoken by some at the time of Jesus, the main language spoken by the people was Aramaic. The Hebrew word for father is אב (Av). The Aramaic word for father is אבא (Abba). It is the only Aramaic word for father. It is not a term of special endearment like Dad, Daddy or Papa. It's simply father.

Only later would it be adopted into Hebrew as a term of endearment.

*** * * * * " I glory on the breast of my Mother." * * * * * ***

Simply outstanding!!! Excellent !!!!:hug3:

Thankyou RabbiO, I appreciate your input.

....or both.

In Tantra, the "Father" and the "Mother" are inseparable, although one is reached and beseeched only through the other.

While it may sound confusing, consider this..

Jesus AS Jesus is not the "Father" even though he says: "I and the Father are one" but according to Christianity, the way TO the Father is through Jesus Christ, so Jesus also acts like the "middleman" between yourself and the Lord (Father).

Similarly, in Tantra, the way to Shiva is through Shakti and the way to Shakti is through Shiva.

This may also sound confusing, so let's break it down.

God or the Father is totally beyond His manifested energies yet is the creator OF them in the form of Prakriti or Shakti...the Goddess...so, by understanding God's manifested energies, God can thus be known through them and then by understanding God, His manifested energies can also be understood as being the cosmic dance between potent and intent.

It is like you have a problem, so you go ask your father and he says "ask your mother" so you go ask your mother and she says "ask your father" then you realise that what you are seeking is within yourself anyway...it is totally beyond the duality of "Divine Masculine" vs "Divine Feminine" because it is a combination of both, which leads to an either/neither or as an and/or scenario, which results in Samadhi... enlightenment.

The Tantric Hindus even have a Deity created for this very purpose when one cannot decide who to give their attention to...the Father or the Mother...it is called Ardharnarishvara or the "half and half God(dess)":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara

Meant for contemplating where one "ends" and the other "begins" until there is no "one" and no "other"... just both or neither.

See my explanation above....We can move from Duality to Non Duality and back again as many times as we like with just a simple change in perception, only to realize that "Duality" vs "Non Duality" is also Duality. :biggrin:

LOL..

I thought I would just add my bit as a Hindu, because we have a Rabbi, two Buddhists, a Christian, an OP who is trying to correlate Daoism with Christianity...just thought I would give a Hindu perspective..now all we need is a follower of the Islamic faith to come along and all bases will be covered before they all "are belong to us". :D

I don't know anything about the Satanic Bible or the Gospel of St. Thomas either, except for ONE thing..

"If you bring forth that which is within you, what is within you shall save you. If you do not bring forth that which is within you, what is within you shall destroy you".

I didn't need to read the Gospel of St. Thomas after that, because I got the main point of it without having the need to.

From a Daoist perspective (yeah, I can go there too), there has been talk of Yin and Yang in this thread...ever stop to wonder what that little dot of Yang is doing in the Yin and what that little dot of Yin is doing in the Yang? because I sure have.

Maybe we can never get beyond duality, always yin and yang with a little bit of the other in it, even at the very subtle levels.

Not with any intellectualizing or conscious thought patterns anyway, as they are part of the duality they are trying to escape from..until we become very skilled mental contortionists, getting nowhere..

This goes wholly into the realms of pure subjective experience of somewhere we don't need any concept of duality or non duality to even travel to..the Christian people call it a "leap of faith".

Very nice explanation.
A cosmic dance between potent and intent, as you have nicely put it.
We can see these dances play out in nature everywhere we look.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

From a Mystical Christianity point of view..

The Father is Emptiness the Tao.

The Father and Jesus being One is a perfect description of Non Duality, of realizing emptiness, of being a Realized Immortal.

Hinduism doesn't have the same concept of emptiness as Taoism or Buddhism or Mystical Christianity. There is Shiva and we are all within Shiva.