Christ did NOT go around teaching everyone self love.
 

Christ's teachings go beyond self love, as does that of the Old Testament. The complete Bible does not teach that self love is the answer; which is what the Hindus and New Age would have us believe.

Self love really is the dark side of love. It is love but it is very self absorbed and not necessarily virtuous or ethical. The Bible is mainly about whole love which Christ summed up as love of self, others and God. NOT just the flaming self.

Get over yourselves! So what you are God, but are not we all. God is God too.

Self love manifests as forgiveness...cuz we beat ourselves up so much...
as we inwardly forgive
ourselves for our many blunders...we are to forgive our neighbor for the same blunders...
that come from childhood trauma unhealed and still pushed down...usually...
then projected out onto others as a way to release pain and guilt and shame that is unconscious!

Until we love ourselves ...accepting ourselves and being gentle with ourselves ...we can never love God fully.


Maybe another angle to see this in? :smile:

How can you love others if you are no capable to love yourself?

It's possible, I don't know why people say this so often. No offence to anyone. It's just that I think people can love others without loving themselves, it's probably better for two people who love themselves to be together, more ideal and harmonious perhaps. But if someone doesn't love themselves it's not like they are incapable of loving another, these can be very self sacrificing people, because they may not care about themselves too much or maybe also kinda secretly want to die.

I'm so glad it isn't just me who has reservations about the "self-love" bandwagon. It does seem like ego, to pat oneself on the back for doing well, for making progress, for helping someone. I can accept the concept of "self-acceptance" far better. I accept who I am, I accept what I have achieved and what I have failed to achieve. I accept my gifts and my flaws. If I do something good, I don't praise myself for it. I did it because it was right and good, and that should be all that needs to be said.

And definitely true, Nature Grows. Some people are very self sacrificing people who have little concern for their own comfort or pleasures. They don't need to love themselves in order to love others.

Then we perhaps need to clarify what love is.
Creating attachments or seeking gratification for some reason would not constitute as love in my view.

Some spirit once asked me "what is love?". I considered it a moment, and finally the only thing I could get in my mind was the word "Mother".

How can you give away what you don't have yourself ?

Self love is the most important gift you can give yourself, then you can share it with others :smile:

how can you possibly not be fully emerged in love seems to me its around every one every where

how can others be cut off from all that if its so that they are ?

You can't be emerged in love if you don't know what love is, you need to love yourself first then you know what love really is.

Explaing to someone what love tastes like is impossible unless they have tasted it for themselves, everything comes from within not without... Start with self love then you can share it with others.



' A candle is not diminished by giving another candle light '

When you've conditioned yourself to feel unworthy of your own love you've gone astray from the teachings of Jesus. The core of Jesus's teachings is rooted back to the origin of where his love rests the most, in you.

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

How much will you love your neighbor then? A little, or a lot? Well, shouldn't you love yourself as much as you love your neighbor and will it be a little or a lot?


You conflate self-gratification for self-love. Self-gratification is the need to act on one's own impulse's and desires. However this isn't love of any kind. Love is what?

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

If this came from the bible, and this is the definition of true love. Are you going to bath yourself in this true love a little or a lot?

So yes fine do away with self-gratification. And bring the love God has taught you since Leviticus. However remember, you're commended to love yourself. It is part of the second greatest commandment, which is like the first.

Mathew 22: 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Now, here's the truth. Since the word of God is within. All love begins with self. You cannot love anyone before you can love yourself because your spirit is your connection to the Holy Spirit. If you don't love that which God has created out of his own love, first. You will never recognize yourself in some one else in situ.

If you believe, I can love some one else before I love myself, don't you see yourself in that individual in situ? Can't you recognize the humanity and spirit that binds the two of you together? If you understand any of this. You will understand that what we mean by love yourself is really loving everyone in situ. Then you'll understand there is no conflict with God's plan and self love.

mmm.. some spiritual people want to detach an go beyond others are more intimate with life, fully involved, there is a way to have both it is like being completely intimate with all of life an creation yet absolutely free from it at the same time, its a more balanced and integrated approach, both in one, mind and heart.

ps: by the way Rah nam I see you are located in the same city as me lol.. I was in williams town all day today, not sure if you know where that is.. its a nice area, nice beach an houses.


They have it but choose not to direct it to themselves, instead give it away, there are people who are sad or depressed but will still treat others very well and kind.

It simply depends where you see yourself on your development path.

Sure, for those who try to explore what unconditional love mean, will have a window of about 20 000 years; plenty of time. Yet for those who intent to implement unconditional love, need to understand first, dispassion comes before compassion, and humility. There is no way past it, as long we follow the path of the light.


ps: Williamstown is on the other side of the City from where we live. We live near the Dandenongs

Stage 1.
Self-love,love for others,love for animals and activities are all in the same Category of love.
All these types/states of love can be brought to very high levels and each state can lead to another state in the same category..ie love for an animal or activity can lead to self love or vice versa....None is better than another in this category.

Stage 2.
Gods love....we can get glimpses of this Love but we cannot hold on to it for long periods unless we have fully experienced any or all of the stage 1 type love.

Stage 3.
Unconditional Love for all and everything.....This comes after Gods love has changed your life and is ...........??? cant be explained,can only be felt.:love4:


If we die without going through stage 1,we cannot meet or feel god....it would be too much so we would need to start over.

My own personal story is that I fell in love with an Idea:confused: and when this could not happen in the real world,my heart broke and god came and fixed me.I was an atheist at the time...Love is the key and it makes no difference who or what you love,,, just love it a lot.

Don't forget the story of A Christmas Carol where Scrooge redeemed himself by loving others. He was very self centred and rediscovered his dignity when he finally loved others.

Some of the Hindu saints remind me of Scrooge - they are so involved in self love they totally overlook humanity.

And lets be honest - Christ's message was about more than learning to love yourself.

In many ways Christ overlooked self love in favour of the greater scheme of things.

Which Saint's are those Honza?

I can't name them. In general the ones who claim I AM ALL. Maybe Sai Baba is a good example.

No I wasn't expecting an answer :smile:

Fortunately I do remember the story, and for that reason I disagree that Scrooge was "self-centered". Scrooge was a miserly old man. Miserly people tend not to spend money on any one, including themselves. Scrooge denied himself the lavishness of his own wealth for that reason he couldn't have been self-centered. Scrooge loved money above all. He substituted love for money. Scrooge horded money to fill a void in his life, but Scrooge wasn't able to recognize what the void was until the very end (when he saw his grave).

The whole point of the Christmas Carol is about loving yourself. Even if you're in the service of others, if you don't allow yourself to be loved, then your heart is dark - you will make yourself miserable.

it's easy, love is an emotion, it's not physical. I feel very little love for myself, but I feel love for everyone close to me. There more important than I am. What I do for them isn't because I love myself, it's because I love them. If you don't have love in your heart you probably couldn't love others. But the love in my heart isn't for me.

Yes. This. It isn't about me. It's about them.

Well said you two. People can also discover love for their own self by loving others - like I was trying to say about Scrooge.

that's true as well, love can spread like any other emotion. Most people don't realize that there a reflection of what's around them. Like scrooge, he was a crabby old man with no feel of love. Because no one felt for him. It's a lot harder to love then not to. Well in a perfect world. To bad it's not perfect. Well, guess you just have to stay strong and do your best. Maybe someone will benefit from you. Like some scrooge

You can't receive or give what you don't have, it maybe the size of a mustard seed but it starts within which is why were told to awake to the Christ in us God's kingdom and dwelling , our divine nature is perfect love.

Well I can definitely recieve what I don't have ( Chocs, Flowers, Perfume etc: :D ) but I agree that you cannot give what you don't have... Impossible.

I agree with you Zeke. You nailed it on the head. :smile:

Ok if we go by this kind of logic, if I don't love myself it means I can not even love my parents? What kind of presumptuous statement is this?

You love your parents because of the love they've shown you. Why is that so difficult to grasp? You think this concept is so presumptuous... Okay let me ask you a question, because the logic still applies.

If you have to give money over to your parents. Who owned the money first?

sf

Me obviously, but nevermind that. What kind of love are we even talking about here? Romantic love or love to strangers we have no attachment to?

How about the biblical definition of love? That love is applicable to any situation. And you're right the love starts with you.

Well that's a hard one given how flawed the bible appears. But I personally don't think it's possible to love everyone, even if you already love yourself. But that's just me though, because I've dealt with people claiming to be full of love and 'spiritually advanced' yet in the end they proved to be toxic.

I agree. I use to be a Christian so I encountered a lot of Christians who talked about love but never knew how to give it. The reason why I left the church was because the culture in Christianity I found inherently toxic.

We were taught to hate ourselves because of "original sin" but love others. The problem is you can't hate yourself and love some one else at the same time. Those emotions are different vibrations. Thus when some Christians talk the talk, they can't walk the walk. With that said I do accept that some people need Christianity to feel apart of a community. So I've grown to realize that Christianity serves a purpose even if I personally find it limiting.

sf

I'm a former Christian as well. To me the only 'useful' thing about Christianity is the fact that it prevents me from jumping from a bridge because I'm still fearfull what happens in the afterlife if I would've done so, even though I no longer practice Christianity. All the fearmongering about eternal punishment has messed me up pretty much and makes me think twice whenever I have suicidal tendencies. I work in a monastery right now and fortunately my Christian co-workers who live there don't believe in eternal suffering and don't tell me what I should and shouldn't do in order to get to heaven.

But yea, I find a lack of love in the bible so I wouldn't say the bible is a good source to feel inspired with when it comes to love. For example let's be honest here, the 10 commandments are mostly about pleasing God and living up to his expectations rather than being a decent person and showing kindness to others and things like that. I miss commandments such as lending a hand to those in need of aid and treating others how you want to be treated.

I see your point.

Unfortunately, people often attack others in the guise of 'self-love'. But that's NOT real self-love.

Negative pride and revenge are never self-love.

Forgiving others is a form of self-love.

If someone attacks you, and you hate them because of it, or you attack them in return, that's not self-love. It's UNDERSTANDABLE, but there's a wiser, more self-loving way to handle it. It's healthy to forgive others; it's SELF-loving.

Self-love is a popular subject in the world. The problem is that most people don't know what REAL self-love really is. They think of it in terms of 'sticking up for yourself', ending 'toxic relationships', 'living for you', and other forms of 'loving' yourself AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS.

But it's impossible to love yourself at the expense of others - that's not true self-love.

I've realized that a choice is either loving towards BOTH yourself AND others, or towards NEITHER.

To attack another is to attack yourself. What you give, you receive, multiplied.

Someone understands

mmm.. oh, Dandenong hey, yes iv been there ... once or twice I think, definitely have driven past it on that big freeway there, I have a friend who lives in noble park (kinda near by) and was going to work in Oakleigh (also kinda near by I think) but i don't know if thats going to be a thing now. I really like the rainforest kinda areas over there like furn tree gully, i know thats a bit further out but its a nice area.

No, not Dandenong, I would not like to live there, the Dandenongs are on the outer eastern fringes of Melbourne, Yes, Ferntree Gully Boronia, Montrose Basin, are just at the bottom the Mount Dandenong Ranges, what we simplify as the Dandenongs. Yes lots of tree ferns lots of birds and very tall gum trees.