Eid Al Adha
 

Eid Al Adha Mubarak!



... or... I think that says Eid Mubarak... I still struggle with being able to identify all the lettering in Arabic.

I hope you are all having a lovely holiday.

This is all new to me and...

...being that I am not sacrificing an animal... (not even sure where you would do that here in the states)... and I haven't just completed the pilgrimage...

How does one celebrate Eid Al Adha? Like what else do I need to do?

One article said donate food, clothing and money.... which is good I can do that... but is there anything else?

I messaged one of my friends who is a convert and he laughed at me and said, just donate and enjoy a nice meal to celebrate. So, we (me and the fam, not the aforementioned friend) ended up going out for a beautiful meal at an Afghan restaurant. Was so delicious! Our first time going there. So clean and elegant. Looked like food that should have been about $10 more a plate than it was and I got to try a drink called dough.

:love5:

I am glad that you didn't sacrifice an animal. In the very beginning of Islam, it was largely a pastoral society. So sharing a part of your livestock was a form of tithe, en lieu of coinage. And it helped the poor, elderly, disabled and so forth.

Today, it is a different world. Muslims ought to make charitable donations instead.
As if God wants millions of animals slaughtered! He is not a monster. Animal sacrifice is the domain of devil worshippers, in my opinion.

Did you see in the newspapers about the 'rivers of blood' in Dhaka?

Have a look too at the 'Ban Live Exports' campaign of Animals Australia ....

Faith, any faith, should be about LOVE

Whatever religion or belief system we decide to follow, we know in our Hearts that no spiritual leadership would ever demand "rivers of blood" from sacrifices of another sentient Being.
Any leadership/ 'priesthood' which demands such things is controlling others through mind-control and superstition. It is not new. It has been going on since early times.

Those who are capable of thinking, will by their choices and their actions, seek to change such things, and bring a new awareness.

Giving to the poor (as the dear Knight mentioned) is a valuable option, and does more good.

Imagine someone destitute...how they would appreciate a gift given kindly by someone they don't even know during the festival of Eid?

I was once given a gift by a devout Muslim during the festival of Eid. We talked a little while, and he gave me a gift. It's not the place to go into that story here but it is one of the blessings of my life which I shall never forget....or that kind man....or the help that small gift gave me at the time.

So... Demanding rivers of blood has nothing to do with Eid.

It is a holiday that marks the end of the pilgramage for many and remembers the story of Abraham whose devotion to the lord never waivered even when he was asked to sacrifice his son, then the lord provided him a Lamb to sacrifice in his sons place. The idea is you sacrifice an animal and divide the meat into thirds. 1 to keep, 1 to give away and 1 to donate to the needy.

That is all. It's not a senseless massecure in fact in Islam it is frowned upon to be wasteful. It is food. So before you go passing judgement on this tradition maybe look at how much is actually wasted every day in our own nations.

How much blood is produced in a slaughter house on a single day?

How much meat goes to waste in a single day?

Fascinating how quickly these facts escape someone whose heart is set on judgement.

How many animals die for Thanksgiving and Christmas every year?

The slaughter for Thanksgiving and especially Christmas is equally wrong!
No-one is saying that it isn't.

The Eid sacrifices are ritual sacrifices. Simple logic would show it's a glorified 'pass the parcel'. You give your neighbour a third of yours. He gives you a third of his. It's a charade!
And if there was someone who was genuinely destitute, they wouldn't have a fridge! Meat spoils if not refrigerated. Again, a charade.

As I said, it would make far greater sense to give a monetary donation instead, that could be used to help fellow Muslims in dire straits in refugee camps in Syria or Lebanon, or in Africa.

Be it Eid or Christmas, if people want to show their devotion, let it be a LOVE sacrifice (i.e. an act of kindness/Service) rather than a blood sacrifice.

Here is the Ban Live Exports website.
http://www.banliveexports.com
{And before anyone says it, yes, there is plenty of inhumane slaughter in Western slaughterhouses too. There is no 'nice way' of having your throat slit.}

I have my own beliefs around the matter and have always found halal slaughter to be admirable and preferable. Why? Because they say a blessing for the animal in it's passing for starters. Death is something we each experience in our own way. But I have always considered life and death to be sacred even for animals. As a child I felt compelled to stop and say a prayer for every dead animal I crossed paths with. It seemed to undignified lying flattened and forgotten in the street. As though it was nothing more than a piece of debris. So naturally, a method of slaughter that takes into account the fact that this life to deserves a blessing in its passing would appeal to me more. As far as how they slaughter... from my perspective it is better that the spirit is able to realize it is moving on with a minimal amount of trauma, respect and regard for that creatures life. Slitting the throat is a way that allows the animal to acknowledge it is crossing over. The animal is then drained of it's blood through that slit and the product you end up with is extremely clean.

I am not against eating animals for food I am however for ethical farming practices which take into account the quality of the creatures life as opposed to the very narrow scope on purely those brief moments before death which account for a mere fraction.

As far as people who don't have refrigerators, it is fairly common in some parts of the world. Not a matter of wealth. I once knew a woman from Afghanistan who grew up without a refrigerator. It may be difficult for us to imagine but for them it is a way of life that they are very apt to thrive in...but also... It seems you are pulling for straws with this point as we all know there are other methods for handling meat that will preserve it for consumption on a long term.

well said...

Explain to me how this is 'paying homage to the glory of God'?
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/fest...sacrifice-2015
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/crisis-in-kuwait

Halal: Fine words, but a grim reality (Gaza, and Turkey and UK - secret filming) (Fair warning, it's not pretty)
http://www.halal-slaughter-watch.org/media/videos/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shop...mal-abuse.html
http://www.banliveexport.com/gaza

And there a multitude of other videos I could post.

I'm sorry, but the naivety of some people who think the animal had a wonderful life (it didn't) happily gave its life (it didn't) and met a quick, humane, stress-free, pain-free demise (it didn't) ....

Meet Harry. He is one of 500 Aussie sheepwho are being illegally held in the Al Rai ..... priceless

i pity a world where people level of conscious wakes up for goats and sheeps
but their conscious sleeps on bigger issues

pathatic world

Albion... I will certainly be scouring through the history of your posts to see if you are likewise spewing hate at the Christians for their holiday feasts. Or perhaps picking fights with those who come in to the forum to wish people Happy Thanksgiving, otherwise your issue is less one of animal rights and more one of bashing Islam. This was a post about celebrating an Islamic Holiday and I find it highly offensive that your contributions are isolated to bashing.

With respect, if you can't engage in civilized discussion, maybe you shouldn't have signed up to a public discussion forum.

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. How many animals are slaughtered for Eid? Clearly it runs to hundreds of millions every year [ and, yes, equally so for Christmas.] Untold terror and suffering, the shedding of blood and killing on a monstrous scale. How is that "paying homage to God"? It seems a perfectly reasonable question to me.

How much better would it be - and more fitting as an act of Service - to give money instead of shedding innocent blood. Money that would provide bread, clothes, housing etc. for those in the world who truly NEED it.

[As a Muslim, surely you are familiar with the verse "It is not their meat or their blood that reaches Allah; it is your PIETY that reaches him'.
The deeper implications of that are surely obvious.]

Perhaps you'd like to comment on those aforementioned videos. If there is anything you can say.
You were quick enough to say how Islam has laws on animal slaughter. Those laws are clearly not being observed. Not observing those laws is not only un-Islamic, it also means the meat cannot be 'halal'.

* Here's an article on Vegetarianism and Islam.
In Islam, as other religions, there is a higher truth for those who have the wisdom and inner light to discern it.
http://www.harekrsna.de/artikel/islam-vegetarianism.htm

Dear 002cents,
Knightofalbion has made so many posts here over the years and I must have read so many if not most of them.
I can assure you he is honest and true in his support for kindness and compassion towards animals...is just as likely to challenge anyone of any religion, belief system or lifestyle who supports any form of animal cruelty no matter what race or religion they may be. He is a very strict vegan, for compassionate reasons.
And so he feels he must fight for the kindness and awareness so needed towards our animal brothers and sisters on this Earth, who are often given scant regard by some humans, or even used as commodities.
I can assure you that to even imagine he is Islamophobic would be very far off the mark.
Neither his, nor my comments are intended to be disrespectful to you, your beliefs, or the religion of Islam.


I only have to say that. I don't mean to make this thread run off-topic.

wait wasn't he among the islam bashers when the islamic forum was entirely deleted am pretty sure he was among the four horsemen
coz i had personal discussions with him about it

and the points he's making is pretty dumb
give money so people go buy meat from slaughter houses instead ?
isn't the same and isn't his point is moot since it comes to same result
you give people money they go buy meat from slaughter houses
or give them meat .. isn't that kinda of same
and doesn't this actually result in one asking what is his point then ?
my money on bashing islam
after all people don't really change no matter which mask they put on
i speak from previous experinces not out of " feelings "

If my memory is correct the Islam section was temporarily deleted due to certain members being unable to engage in civilised debate about certain issues - issues that we only know about today because they are openly stated in Islamic scripture - without going into meltdown.

As Admin politely requested that members, in the interests of harmony, do not discuss such matters, we no longer do.

Ritual slaughter is not on the eggshell list. Therefore it is open to debate.

The animals in the videos I posted and the multitude of ones I didn't, were not killed under the laws of halal slaughter Islam commands and therefore are not 'halal'.

Satanists and black magicians conduct animal sacrifice, in honour of their devil gods.
Islam does the same, explain to me how that is 'paying homage to God'? Explain to me how that is any different to what the devil worshippers do?

As I said, there is a higher truth for those who have the wisdom and inner light to see it. A higher truth that doesn't involve killing and bloodshed.

I would have thought it's pretty clear. You keep a third for yourself - that's not a 'sacrifice' is it. You give your neighbour a third of yours and he gives you a third of his - that's a total charade. The other third goes to charity. Not sure how that works exactly, but nobody in the West or oil-rich countries are in need like they are in other parts of the world.
It makes perfect sense all-round to give a financial donation en lieu to help provide bread, clothes, shelter and medicines to those elsewhere in the world in genuine need.

first of all answer my question
your solution was give charity instead of meat right ?
so money given charity will then person go buy meat from market
which ends in same result as animal being slaughtered somewhere else
so what's the difference ?
point A your argument is invailded and emptied of it's content
on the above result ending same in both cases
so again i ask my self why are you arguing using that excuse
if the result is same market or muslim slaughtered sheep
so your reason behind the argument is not well being of animal
never was .. mostly bashing islam as devil worshipping eh ??

your same old tactic of avoiding questions and deflecting them into different questions is so clear to me as always

as for devil worship the killings are made for the " blood "
the animals sometimes tortured before killing
their blood drained for use in rituals or consumed
in islam blood is forbidden and torture of animals is forbidden
just off top of my head am sure i can come out with long list of differences

if your knowledge on the subject is so small
why do you ask silly questions as to " what's difference between this and that "

how about you educate your self and see what's common knowledge for entire world for what is the different
instead of giving us the act " for sake of animals "
no one is buying into that act specially not me

Try looking at those videos I provided. Are the animals killed in accordance with Islamic law???? NO! Do you not understand your own religion?

Given the volume of animals butchered for regular use, never mind Eid, I doubt few if any are killed fully according to those standards.

Satanists and devil worshippers sacrifice animals in honour of their devil gods.
Muslims slaughter animals in honour of Allah.
What's the difference???? It's the same thing. One cannot be sacred and the other monstrous. They're either both sacred or both monstrous. Which is it?

As Islamic scripture makes clear, only the piety of the act reaches God. So a financial donation, given with a pure heart, is the greater gift.
The money could be used to buy bread, rice, vegetables, fruit, medicine, clothing, bedding, to provide shelter, to provide education and so forth.

yep show the true intentions behind the act
why not compare xmas and eastern with devil worshippers then ?

i just described the difference and you deflect it
and ignored the answers and just asked question again
a tiring boring tactic you always use



your discussion is really void and has no reason or sense behind it
bashing islam is the essence behind your question
always was

done here but will leave you with this

your God sacrificed his own son btw ... blink blink :D
at least Allah doesn't ask us to sacrifice our children
like poor Jesus was sacrifcied like devil worshippers by his father :D
see

I have and I do!

You haven't described anything! And nor can you, it's the same thing. Both cases demonstrate a total ignorance of the true nature of God.

'Bashing Islam' a well-worn excuse you drag out whenever anyone raises questions you can't answer.

Ignorance. Jesus, the Lamb of God, gave himself as the 'sacrifice, in place of the Passover lamb. One of the allegorical meanings behind it was to show that what God requires is not a blood sacrifice, but a love sacrifice i.e. Service

Shadow Of A Knight, have you never known a Soul connection with an animal? Or ever realised they too, have Souls?
Those whose Hearts open to the suffering of all Creatures, or to the likeness of all Souls, are not always likely to ignore 'bigger issues'.

Wows... And now a thread intended to pay respect to a religious holiday has not only degraded into bashing how it is celebrated but it has also likened us to devil worshipers. :icon_frown:

...very disheartening.

On a secondary note, if people were universally required to slaughter their own food we as a species would likely consume a lot less meat.

People become far more removed from the actual animal by purchasing their meat in the market.

As for Shadow, I happen to know he has a remarkable capacity to connect to animals they are quite drawn to him and develop almost an instant kinship. If you ever heard him talk about his pet it's evident he loves her like a child.

I fell in love with her just listening to him.

:love5:

His big heart and need to care for others (animals included) has to be the single most beautiful thing about him.

I can't help but feel you two have perhaps too much angst towards one another.

It's unfortunate as it seems deep down you are likely both very caring, compassionate... Albeit passionately opinionated people.

what i see ignorant is you claiming to know the true nature of God
more than anyone ?
is that massive ego or just ignorance ?

i find it absurd that one person claim to care about lives
shout and yell for life of sheep
then the conciousness fall asleep for death of child or human
and suddenly the same person was shouting
goes silence on the matter

to me the person eiather take stand on all issues related
or he doesn't but when person cherry pick
then that person has different agenda at mind
which is not the well being of that animal

yes i had too many pets and i can tell you
all my pets probably loved me more than Albion pet's ever loved him :D

still at end of day no matter how much i care about them
i know they are animals and we are humans
and we both set on different level on food chain
i don't subdue my self to illusion that animals are here for any reason
other than to serve us mankind and serve earth
by keeping balance

people who take it too far are emotional wrecks in my opinion
i had more pets than anyone here could count
and no pet i had didn't have connection to me
some of them allowed me to bandage a extremely painful wounds
knowing me just laying there hissing in pain but not going away
or trying to hurt me

so yeah i got great connection to animals
still i think we are God's most important and blessed creatures
and the earth and nature and animals
were all made to serve our purpose to extend
and that extend was told in my religion

Well, I suppose we should be grateful this thread is at least still open.
We can't talk about ---- because you get aggressive and abusive, we can't talk about ----, or -----, or -----, or -------, or -----, or -----, or ------, or -----.
Even though it's all openly stated as historical record in Islamic scripture.

There is a saying 'By their fruits ye shall know them' .......

That also applies to SF members! My posting record is available for all to see, as is yours Mr Shadow.

Here's something you can do, Google 'dailymotion bloody slaughter of goats on eid'.
I warn you, its graphic, but there you are, that is how Muslims celebrate Eid - and its essential to the flow of the discussion to understand what it involves and what you are defending.

Again, I invite you - and your 'animal loving' friend Mr Shadow - to explain how that is 'paying homage to God'?

And also explain how this is any different to the animal sacrifices of the devil worshippers? Because it looks exactly the same to me!

And in your opinion do such actions, which happen all over the Islamic world, qualify as 'humane slaughter'????

PS: I had put a direct link to that video up, but thought better of it.

belated eid mubarak 002cents and everyone and sorry for jumping in like this:).

this is a very interesting discussion you are having here. Honestly, while I don't have a very strong view on animal rights and I am a consumer of meat, I still do care about humane treatment of animals and I had seen the images of the 'bloody' river with horror on the news.

I think knightofalbion is onto the core of the matter here when he discussed the metaphor of the lamp and the sacrifice in an earlier post. It does not need an actual sacrifice.

I think that we must keep in mind that religious practices are culturally influenced and as all cultures they are dynamic and can change along with our sensitivities and our belief systems. Just because this practice exists, it does not mean that it is the core element of the religion or the holiday for that matter. There is something wrong if that is the case.

Also: 002cents, just an observation here about a previous post on this thread. I have watched with great interest your other thread about converting to Islam and have been touched greatly with the spiritual journey you have gone through as well as a general sociopolitical motivation behind it. My respect to you for your noble feelings. However, there is nothing great, romantic or thriving about a society where (poor mostly) people do not have access to refrigerators and we, in the Western world can too evaluate our responsibility there. Yes, people who have lived without a refrigerator can do without it and find ways to bypass them BUT I urge you to consider that this has a great toll on their time and resources that could be used elsewhere... also, improper storage of foods may lead to diseases and mortality rate because of foodborne illness is higher in states like that. Just because some people survive or they do not know how to live with a refrigerator -or water infrastructure, or electricity -it does not mean that these won't make their lives easier and give them more time and resource into creative and spiritual endeavors that will help them grow more.

I have seen the film earthlings and frankly no, im not going to watch any videos you post because I am well aware the types of things that are out there on the subject. Dispite the fact that there are outlets here to express your distate for meat eaters you felt compelled to bring your "animal rights activism" to my thread. It is no wonder this site has almost no Muslim people posting with the scales for impropriety heavily weighted on the side of someone who has repeatedly likened us to devil worshipers.

Going forward I will have you blocked as I don't feel this sort of dialogue is beneficial to anyone involved.

Assalamu Alaikum

unfortunatly most of the dirty laundry was removed when islamic
section was removed first time thanks to your efforts
and the other few members who were your backup
as for me being aggressive i just don't give rat
i call things as i see them
i see you posting nonsese i will say you are posting nonsense
with no doubt in my mind at all

you asked for difference between two
i gave you difference you ignored the answers
and kept on asking same question
like i said old tactc you and your pals have used
so you can keep dragging topic to your direction

you haven't answered my question which void your entire silly arguemnt
if money was given as charity and people buy meat from market instead
doesn't that result in same result to animals
infact it results in more merciful way to animals to die
unlike market and farms where they are stunned to death
or killer by blunt and other manners of abuse

so eaither answer my question which in it's answers lies
the end of your silly argument
or keep dragging the topic to bash islam as " devil worship "
which in my mind that is the whole goal of your hints

we been through this before
although you're too much of chicken to say it straight
you keep hinting in shifty sneaky way to pass on your points
which is associate islam with devil worship
i am not like you sneaky or shifty that's why you call me aggressive

we both know from past experince your goal is to associate islam with devil worship using animals sacrifice as the link
different between you and me i say it straight
you have to keep a " good boy gentle spirit " image
so you don't want to ruin your image to people around as tolerant person eh ?

anyway i don't have time to spare for you so i shall leave this discussion alone
since unlike you i said my peace
people are welcome to like or dislike what matters to me am straight and honest
even though i may get criticized for that
but at peace in my self for it and i don't care much what people think of me for saying what i think is right

you on other hand gotta image to keep .. the gentle spirit of tolerance lol

I am not sure what knightofalbion thinks on this, however, I will answer what I believe is my main difference: I believe in what we call public discourse and public pedagogies. On one case, this public emphasis is on the sacrifice, the killing of the animals. On the other, the emphasis is on food for consumption. Now, I am not saying that just because the meat market killing of animals is hidden from the public eye, it is better... however, I do believe that it is better that the emphasis is not into killing and that there is no religious rule emphasizing the consumption of meat. This specific holiday seems to dictate the sacrifice and keep it as a central point, or at least, it is so presented.

Madam, you were looking for the religion that is perfect for you. On your performance in this thread, I'd say you've found it.

I wish you well and may God give you Light.

Thank you, I agree the need of the world is great.

From what you said it sounds like you have a cause of your own and that is admirable.

The world needs a great deal if diversity among its activists. As no one person could possibly do it all. And not that I mind animal rights activists, but certainly some methods are more effective than others. Its like abortion rights activists who want to shove pictures if dead babies in your face.

And it does bother me that I am being put on the spot and expected to answer for how certain Muslim celebrate their holiday when that was quite obviously not how I celebrated mine. As a Muslim in their infancy with much learning yet to do, I am not about to start taking a critical stance on everything that is hurled in my face. My journey is about establishing what it means to me and how I will incorporate the teachings and traditions into my life and heart.

I am curious now though... What Albion's stance is on abortion as in my experience those who are vegan... Ironically also tend to be pro-choice...

As for the aforementioned friend without a refrigerator, they also went to a school that was bombed by the Taliban. So, there are issues that take higher priority that are beyond any of our means to be able to repair. Also, I never inquired as to why they didn't have one I just accepted that they didn't. I don't presume that our way of life in the west is or should be the standard globally or that having or not having a refrigerator is an indicator of well being. This person had access to higher education and being able to immigrate to the USA so... It didn't seem like the issue was one of being without resources. Some ways of life are just different.

I don't live a life of excess, I have always preferred simplicity and I do not live a life that is blind to the need in the world. I would take the time elaborate to what extent I try to be involved with contributing to the issues of the world at large but it would only feel like I was bragging.

Giving monetarily... I will never say we shouldn't try. But there are many ways to contribute to the need in addition to or instead of that. The causes I get involved in tend to focus on human rights but I do not forget the needy, those who are without means both locally and on the larger scale be it lacking the resources for clean water, food, clothing or medical care. Also, I have found that keeping friends who are passionate about helping others is a good way to keep yourself inspired.

Don't worry about it, dear Mr Shadow. All that 'dirty laundry' we aren't allowed to talk about is still there, in black and white, in Islamic scripture.

You still haven't explained how sacrificing animals in exactly the same way as devil worshippers is paying 'homage to God'. Instead of running off - for the second time in this thread ... - why not answer the question.

Isaiah, whilst not in the Koran, is recognised in Islam as a prophet of God.
The Book of Isaiah is quite clear in its condemnation of animal sacrifice, that God never asked for it, that it is an abomination in the eyes of God and that God will not hear the prayers of those who do it.
And as Islamic scripture itself points out "It is not their meat or their blood that reaches Allah; it is your piety that reaches Him".

A monetary donation makes much more sense. It would ALL go to those in the world who are GENUINELY in need. It would pay for bread, rice, fruit, vegetables, bedding, clothing, medicine etc and pay for housing, education etc.
As you say, some might want to use a portion of the monetary aid to buy meat. If they see nothing wrong in eating dead flesh then so be it, but they should ONLY eat meat killed according to the strict guidelines commanded in the Koran.
In those videos I provided, the goat video your friend didn't want to look at and all the countless others, the animals were NOT slaughtered according to those guidelines. Repeatedly sawing at an animal's neck, watching it wretch, convulse and squeal, and then saw at its neck a bit more, inflicting intense pain and suffering - and in full view of other animals, that is not halal and I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Thank you 002 Cents. This is lovely.
Bless you, Shadow :hug2:
I am sorry to misinterpret what you said about goats and sheep. It goes to show we should not take too quickly what is written, when we really don't know the other person's Soul and those they love.
Bless your animal companion too ....:icon_cat: ?.....or :grommit: ?

Focus off the meat... I personally like that you are asked to think in terms of giving two times what you plan to use for your family.

And as one person had explained it to me, when you gift to friends and family you are supposed to focus on those who are struggling. Not like you are getting back what you are giving. Not sure if that is the practice at large or just in their region or culture but, it makes a lot of sense. And certainly speaks to an ideal I can get behind when the holiday comes.

He already has the love of his life. It's not me. We are just friends :redface: he helped me find the strength to get through the darkest hours of my life. Took me under his wing when no one else would or could, despite the fact that he already had more than enough on his plate. Made sure I was remembering to eat and sleep to keep up my strength for my kids...

Even now he still finds the time to nag me about not smoking because I had a pulmonary embolism in Feb and it could actually kill me.

Those are the kinds of friends you never forget... even if I do still hiss at him a lot. Which he certainly doesn't have to stick around for but does anyway.

(and no I am not who he was talking about when he made the hissing reference, it was an actual cat... I just found it an amusing analogy as I def don't make it easy... and I know you are asking yourself right now, "How could cents ever be difficult to deal with?" lol ... I have the patience of a saint right? :D ... *hopes you caught the sarcasm there*)

Thank you for your response. No, you should not be held accountable for how other Muslims celebrate this holiday. And you are right that you are still new and the amount of information you are receiving is probably too overwhelming to allow for too much critical attitude on many issues.

You are right, the world does need different activists. Looking forward to reading more from you :hug: