Three Days and Three Nights
 

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x” days and “x”nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the “x” days and at least parts of the “x” nights?

The way you worded this makes me suspect you don't believe the crucifixion was on a Friday. It this correct? If so, I agee with you and even started a thread on this subject.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13747

theophilus,

re: "The way you worded this makes me suspect you don't believe the crucifixion was on a Friday. It this correct?"

That would be correct.

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some documentation.

Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some documentation.

Since it has once again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some documentation.

The Crucifixion was on a Wednesday.

The Church's Good Friday was 'borrowed' from the Mithraic festival Black Friday, which commemorated the death of Mithra.

knightofalbion,

re: "The Crucifixion was on a Wednesday."


Do you have any of the information asked for in the OP?

BTW, how do you reconcile a 4th day crucifixion with Luke 24:21?

knightofalbion,

You have a couple of questions directed to you in post #8.

But really.

Does it matter which day it was? :confused:

Squatchit,

re: "Does it matter which day it was?"

When asked by the scribes and Pharisees for a sign of his authority, the Messiah said that the only sign would be His entombment for three days AND three nights. If He didn't spend that time in the tomb, then He would not qualify. So why do you think that it is not important as to the length of time?

Also, it - a first day resurrection - matters to those who use it, at least in part, to justify the change of seventh day observance to the first day.

Personally, I think the message from Jesus is more important than who he was (or claimed to be). That's why, to me, it doesn't matter which day he died.

If someone 'preaches' love, kindness and peace, then whether they be a madman or a genius matters not a jot. It's all in the message and whether it fills your heart with joy, and spirit with love.

Just my thoughts. :smile:

*And Squatch, what the heck are you doing in the Christianity section...get out, get out!*

Perhaps a rewriting of the OP will make it a little more clear:

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion proponents, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/prophetic/babushka_principle4b.html

"Exod 19:10-20
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes. And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. ...

16 Then it came to pass ON THE THIRD DAY, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.

Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire.
Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly.
And when the blast of the trumpet sounded long and became louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by voice.

Then the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mountain.

And the LORD called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up.

Now doesn't this remind us of the description of the Rapture in Matt 24:29-31? (Also 1 Cor 15:51-52 and 1 Thess 4:15-18)"

Morpheus,

Do you know of any writing as requested in the OP?

I think you may be missing the point, rstrats.

Since Einstein,we have been told that time is illusory.
I've provided old testament reference regarding the relevance to, "three days", other than the story of Jonah.

So, bottom line, what is the relevance of the OP? Why should it be important to you?

Morpheus,

re: "I think you may be missing the point..."

I guess I am because I don't see where your post shows a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights that absolutely didn’t include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.

Seems youir OP was strange... a continuation from somewhere else, with someone else?
Then, you disregarded everything else I posted to you, also.

I expect then you are Jewish, as I am on my mother's side, and I expect also you are the religious minded, and, "straining at the gnat"?

I take exception, also, with the Seventh Day Adventists.

The Love of God, and His salvation being greater than the issue of a, "calendar day".

Morpheus,

re: "Seems youir OP was strange..."

I don't see anything strange about it. I'm simply asking a question.



re: "...you disregarded everything else I posted to you..."

If by disregarded, you mean I didn't accept your comments as being responsive to my request, then guilty as charged.



re: "I expect then you are Jewish..."

Not that I know of. What have I said that would cause you to think that?

Someone new looking in may know of some writing.

I probably should have addressed the OP to those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who think that the 3 days and 3 nights of Matthew 12:40 is a common Jewish idiom.

Days of the week just came up in the Trivia questions on the radio (three days a week) Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Rarely do I ever listen to the radio unless a Christianity station Morpheus.

You have quoted the correct answer on the OP's question, through God, in relation to His Scriptures quoting Moses on God and Mount Sinai and the Three Days undoubtedly.

Before this The big bang theory was in a trivia question, when on the other science related Thread.

StaroftheSea,

re: "You have quoted the correct answer on the OP's question..."


Who is the "you" and what was their correct answer?

Three Days and Three Nights - Matthew 12:40 -
 

"For just as Jonah was in the belly of the sea monster, for three days and three nights, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the Heart of the Earth".

Jesus states three days and three nights in entirety. Literally. Not parts thereof, in entirety, all inclusive. (3).

In John 19:31
"Since it was the day of preparation the Jews did not want the bodies left on The Cross during the Sabbath, especially because that Sabbath was a day of great solemnity. So they asked Pilate to have the legs of the crucified men broken and removed. Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who had been crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that Jesus was already dead, they did not break His legs. Instead one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear and at once blood came out. He who saw this has testified (John) so that you all may believe his testimony is true and he knows that he tells the truth.

These things occurred so that the Scriptures may be fulfilled 'None of His bones shall be broken".

And again another passage of Scriptures says "and they will look on the One whose bones shall not be broken". And of course they were not as John says.

To the point of John's Writings and Readings "The Sabbath according to the Jews was a day of solemnity in which they wanted no-one remaining on The Cross. This was the day (Saturday originally being the Sabbath in the Middle East during Jesus' Life here on Earth) that Jesus was taken away. Friday Jesus died on The Cross. Sunday Jesus ascended into Heaven.

Now Jesus still in His Scriptures and from God has counted earlier the three days in the Heart of Earth.

When Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene in His Tomb after dying, Jesus said to her "Now don't hold on to Me, I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My Brothers and say to them "I am ascending to My Father and to your Father, to My God and your God".

Mary Magdalene went and announced to the Disciples "I have seen the Lord" and she told them that He had said these things to her".

Therefore, Jesus had not Ascended into Heaven at the time (on Easter Sunday) when Jesus was speaking to Mary Magdalene despite Jesus already having been dead and in The Holy Spirit, which He always had been here on Earth anyway in a physical form as a being also.

Jesus may not have ascended into Heaven until that afternoon or night which is now known as Easter Sunday.

So we have Good Thursday with Jesus' Last Supper and His preparation prior.

Good Friday in which Jesus died on The Cross.

Easter Saturday (the Sabbath) in which the Jews would keep Holy and not work back in Jesus' days. Despite this being physically the day of burial, we must remember that Jesus had died the day before in which Jesus has in all probability counted Friday as the first day in reference to 'the Heart of the Earth', Saturday being moved into the Tomb. Sunday being in the Tomb (and Jesus may well have ascended that night) after speaking with Mary Magdalene.

What is the Heart of the Earth in which Jesus refers should be the question.

The heart of the Earth. Not the Heart of Jesus, not the heart of Heaven.

The heart of the Earth as it was back in those days and in ways today.

When our Jesus/God is 'all Love and Goodness' and when living here on Earth, what would one interpret if Jesus said back then "the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights".

Meaning 'the cruel cold hearts of man and horrible cruel Earth full of sin' who were about to torture and crucify Jesus (our Heavenly Brother and Heavenly Father).

Regardless of when Jesus was crucified, the most important thing is that He gave up His Life for us in order to be born, to live, for Jesus to have Mercy upon our Souls with sin on Earth, and to intervene saving Souls when asked, saving His World when asked if He so chooses, through His Divine Love and Mercy.

"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe" says Jesus.

StaroftheSea,

You have a question directed to you in post #24.

Three Days and Three Nights
 

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. He was conceived by the Power of the Holy Spirit and was conceived by the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended to the dead. "On the Third day He rose again". He ascended into Heaven and is Seated at the Right Hand of The Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. His Kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Apostolic Church, the Communion of Saints, the Resurrection of the Body (Jesus) and life everlasting Amen.

Short version of The Apostles Creed left by Jesus relating again to the Third Day He rose again. On the Third day. Friday Jesus died. Saturday Jesus was placed into the Tomb and thereafter spoke to Mary Magdalene. Now, whether Jesus ascended into Heaven on either Sunday or Monday would be unclear to any one other than Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit (The Holy Trinity) because Jesus said to Mary M " that he had not yet ascended into Heaven". He was in the Holy Spirit but had not yet ascended into Heaven. Therefore when we say 'on the Third Day" as Catholics, we are going by the Apostles Creed which was left to us by Jesus in His Scriptures. It comes from His Bible of Scriptures.

'Mark 8:31

Then He began to teach them that the Son of Man must undergo great suffering, and be rejected by the Elders the Chief Priests, Pharisees and the Scribes and be killed and after three days rise again. He said all this quite openly. And Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. "Get behind me Satan! For you are setting your mind not on divine things but on human things".

He called the crowd with His Disciples and said to them"if any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me. For those who want to save their Life will lose it and those who lose their life for My sake and for the sake of the Gospel, will save it. For what will it profit them to gain the whole world and forfeit their Life? Indeed what can they give in return for their Life?Those who are ashamed of Me and My Words, in this adulterous and sinful generation of them the Son of Man (Jesus) will also be ashamed when he comes in the Glory of His Father with the Holy Angels".

"Truly I tell you there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the Kingdom of God has come with power".

I should also add "...and who thinks that the 'heart of the earth' is referring to the tomb" to the OP.

Since it's again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.

Since it has been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks that the three nights specified in Matthew 12:40 actually means two nights because the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language, will know of some writing as requested in the OP.

The resolution of the 'problem' can be found by careful reading of the text, especially John.

The confusion arises in conflating the Passover (an annual Sabbath) with the common practice of the Jewish weekly Sabbath, Friday/Saturday (dusk to dusk).

The date of the Sabbath of the Passover was determined by the lunar calendar, not by the day of the week. If we work the dates from the Jewish calendar, as do the authors of the Gospels, then the question is resolved.

Taking AD30 as the most likely date, and following the days given in Scripture, we get:
Nisan 14 (Wednesday):
Preparation day for the annual Sabbath.
In the morning, Jesus was brought before Pilate the governor.
Jesus was crucified and dies around 3PM
At the same time, the sacrificial lambs were being slaughtered in the Temple.
Jesus' body was placed in the tomb at twilight

Nisan 15 (Thursday)
This was the first annual Sabbath or high-day - the first day of Unleavened Bread. Tomb is guarded and secured by sealing it with a stone.
The annual Sabbath ends at sunset.

Nisan 16 (Friday)
The Sabbath now over, the women bought and prepared spices for anointing Jesus' body.
The weekly Sabbath begins at sunset Friday night. No work is to be done as commanded in the fourth commandment.

Nisan 17 (Saturday)
The weekly Sabbath.
The women rested on the weekly Sabbath.
The weekly Sabbath ends at sunset Saturday night.

Nisan 18 (Sunday)
The women brought the prepared spices early in the morning while it was still dark. When they arrived they found that Jesus had already arisen.

So the best we can know is Christ arose sometime between dusk on Nisan 16 and dawn of Nisan 18, but the news of the Resurrection came known on the Sunday.

Our Lord was thus dead and buried three days – dusk on the Wednesday to Thursday (1 day), Thursday to Friday (2 days), Friday to Saturday (3 days).

We can then posit, in line with His prophecy, that He arose sometime after dusk on the Saturday night, and the empty tomb was discovered at dawn on the Sunday morning.

Someone new looking in may know of some writing.

Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.

Denys,
re: "The confusion arises in conflating the Passover (an annual Sabbath) with the common practice of the Jewish weekly Sabbath, Friday/Saturday (dusk to dusk)."


That's an issue for another topic.

Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks that the three nights specified in Matthew 12:40 actually means two nights because the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language, will know of some writing as requested in the OP and as expanded on in post #33.

Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with some 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.

And remember, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. But as I said, there are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. So again, in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.

With the new year upon us, maybe there will be someone new looking in who knows of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language so that the Messiah's forecast of 3 nights really meant 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.

as I understand it in Jewish thinking the 'day' begins with sundown. which is regarded as the night. So you have friday sundown, and Saturday sundown.... that would be two nights. three days would be friday afternoon, Saturday, and then the sundown-to-early-morning sunday bit.

To be honest it's not a thing I dwell on. Yeah it would be "nice" if there was some obscure prophesy fulfilled that way.... but isn't the prophesy reference itself subject to interpretation? I don't see the three-ness as highly relevant..... something a pattern-maker slipped in afterwards maybe. Like how in one of the gospels they link the last supper/crucifixion with Passover; and in another gospel the link is either not there or not accentuated. But that happens with long-term memory, and word-of-mouth, which is how these stories were translated and transmitted.

Once more, "remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth."

Here's a link with some other apart-from-jesus references: http://www.ancientbiblehistory.com/f...ys_nights.html

and info on Hebrew calendar from Hebrews http://torahcalendar.com/SUNSET.asp