Meat eating Christians?
 

Do not Kill means Do not kill.....
It is not Specific......

What do you think. When a plant grows we can pick a part of it resulting in not killing it or we can regrow it through its seed. Recreating life from it.

When we kill a cow we cannot plant a cow leg or rib...and grow a new calf...

With this thinking is meat eating okay for Christians to do?:dontknow:

Regarding Noah's Flood, something apparently changed involving planet climatology and the environment. Perhaps physiologically also involvling protein requirements.
It is after the Flood that the Lord say's that mankind can then include meat in their diet.
That the fear of mankind will be present, generally, in the animal kingdom because of it.

"3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."

http://biblehub.com/kjv/genesis/9.htm

The First Blessing was vegan.

The Prophecy of Isaiah is vegan.

The later permission to eat flesh was given at a time when there wasn't sufficient plant food to eat, was only conceded to hardness of heart, was only intended to be temporary and was issued with a curse - 'the blood of your lives shall I require'.
A curse hardly indicates approval. Plus if it was a righteous and intended food then it would have been authorized from the start. It wasn't.

Jesus and the apostles were vegan. Veganism was a cornerstone of the Christ Consciousness teaching and ethos, as a practical daily application of the law of love.

Roman Catholicism was a State sponsored religion, intended to unify the people's of the Roman Empire. The Christian teachings were altered and interpolated to say what they wanted them to say.
The compassionate teachings were anathema to Constantine and would have been similarly so to the meat-eating, blood sports loving masses of the day. So they were suppressed.

This is how the condonement of slavery entered the Bible texts. The Roman Empire ran on slave labour and they needed it to continue.

knight... you purposely have taken things out of context.
The blood requirement verse is about the shedding of another persons blood. Not about animals.

Jesus spoke also about "feasts", and gave no indication of a pro vegetarian lifestyle.
He stated that it is not what goes into a person which defiles them, but what is emitted.

"15 It's not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from within"

Interesting though, how people will assert certain things.

we were born carnivores.

However, people ought to live according to their conscience.
The quote from the Lord however gives us indication that what we eat is not as important as we think, within reason.

according to leviticus and deuteronomy, god care a heck of a lot about what we eat and shouldn't eat.

just saying........:)

Interesting point.
Now, that'a topic for an interesting dsicussion, isn't it. Why do you suppose then Jesus stated what He did? Does He have the last say in the matter?

Meanwhile, is He ever noted to have advocated the vegan lifestyle?

The sign is the Truth - the pure in heart they shall see it.

Not quite true; we were born omnivores.
But even if what you say is right, we were also born incontinent and unable to speak. These are skills we pick up later, as is a vegetarian diet.

A brilliant riposte! (I must jot that one down!)

I wasn't going to give this the time of day, but then thought it warranted a response.

The Bible may be your book, but it isn't mine, but if you are going to quote from it, you should at least get the facts straight.

"Interesting how people will assert things"
In Matthew 15 Jesus, partly in allegory, is reproving the hypocrisy and false teaching of the scribes and Pharisees , who had malice in their hearts.
The piece as a whole was triggered by the issue of not washing hands. It's not a lecture on diet.

"And the blood requirement verse is about the shedding of another person's blood. Not about animals." I suggest you re-read it.
If 'you' eat meat with the blood (i.e. non-kosher) then God's curse is upon you. That is what it says, that is what it means and that is why the Jews are so painstakingly meticulous in only eating kosher meat/kosher food.

As for the vegan origins of early Christian, why was James the brother of Jesus and first head of the Christian Church in Jerusalem vegan? As recorded by Hegesippus, the earliest Christian writer and confirmed by St Augustine.
Why was the Apostle Matthew vegan as recorded by Clement of Alexandria? Why was the Apostle Peter vegan as recorded in the Clementine Homilies?
Why was abstention from meat commonplace among the early Christian fathers/saints?
Because it was ordained teaching.
'The disciple is in all things as the Master'.

Biologically we are omnivores. Our teeth cater for both meat and vegetation. If we were meant to be vegetarian I think we would have teeth similar to cows (primarily of molars for grinding the fibers down).

I'm surprised at the complexity of this discussion. It's a very simple question. You are "defiled" by whatever you eat that your heart and soul understands to be wrong for you. I ate meat all my life. A decade ago, I woke up to what my inner voice was telling me: stop eating meat, it's not right for you anymore.

That's the answer... to every question of this kind.

This is true, however, because of our intelligence we have discovered that it is not necessary to eat meat. Therefore we do not have to, despite what evolution intended. We can opt for a more compassionate diet.

We are meat eaters or vegetarians, depending on our soul calling. Or are we going to allow science to tell us it knows what we supposedly are in that regard? That's tantamount to allowing religion to tell us the earth is 6000 years old.

Science can not tell us what we are supposed to eat.
It can tell us what food our ancestors ate and the nutrients we need.
Our ancestors ate an omnivorous diet but all our required nutrients can be obtained from a vegetarian diet.

In the beginning God created sin free Vegans in his image.

Not long after the serpent tempted them in to sin. Sin invoked Gods wrath and a flood to stop sinning and corruption.
Because of the flood man ate meat.

Meat was not given to man as blessing, meat consumption was because of sinful activities God hates as temporary measure to survive hunger after flood.

God made sin free vegans in his mage and man caused the existence of omnivores that delight in killing for taste and pleasure through dissobedience to God.

There is plenty after Genesis talking about meat consumption but to say it was natural is also to say God desired man to sin so he could eat meat. there was no death until man sinned.

Killing is very bad because all life is precious and matters to us all very much :)

If you believe our ancestors were cave people I could understand that comment. That means believing what science believes about the human being and its origins, and that's what I was getting at.

I believe that our ancestors were "cave people," yes.
I don't see how that is, in your words: One view is based on archaeological evidence, the other on faith.

Science is right and religion is wrong and religion is right and science is wrong. That's what I always try and avoid. I prefer the third, middle path option. Anyway, no problem, carry on. You're correct on one level, that's fine we can leave it at that.

yes that is correct. God has forbidden the; meat of a dead animal that is rotting, blood of any kind, the flesh of swine, and any animal which is slaughtered as a sacrifice on which God has not been mentioned while slaughtering. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, and not transgressing, then it is allowed, God is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.

mj

I always mention peoples who's environment isn't suited to agriculture... which means there is no universal morality to this diet issue.

I see now, the Bible was written to turn people into vegetarians. After reading that.

It's a nicer way of living for sure and I am like it too. We are lucky we found this way to live. The Peace and happiness it brings along with being christian is so much better.

And God said, "Just listen to thy inner voice and do whatever the heck it's telling you."

i think when the bible cites things you should not eat-it isn't from a spiritual aspect but a common sense one. god just want people to be healthy. ie do not eat pork. undercooked port can make you ill.

The core issue is spiritual evolution.

As we grow in wisdom, love and understanding things which 'we' once viewed as 'acceptable', 'we' come to see as error and unacceptable and 'we' abandon them for a better and higher way of living.

Colossians 2:16......."Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink"

For a more complete understanding of the teaching read the remainder of this passage......Colossians 2: 16-23

This is what seems to make the most sense to me.

I think the fact that kills this discussion is that the chimpanzees eat meat as part of their diet. As far as "eating rotten meat" goes, our remote ancestors were probably scavengers too, eating the left-overs of the major carnivores. Add too, that they were also cannibals !

The rotting meat thing killed my appetite, that's for sure.

I guess people who live in harsher climates are lesser evolved, according to this theory.

Exactly why I say I rather than We when this topic is discussed.

Maybe so, unless they migrate?
If you lived in a land where cannibalism was the order of the day would you partake?

I recall you raised this same point a while back about the Gilbert Islands and I remember I pointed out that the Gilbert Islands have been known as Kiribati since 1979 and that they have an obesity problem to the consumption of too much processed foods.

The Inuit, whom I presume you are alluding to no longer live in igloos but in settlement houses, so even for them it is not impossible.

Is fish considered a meat for vegies? There was alot of fish around Jesus.

mj

Jesus ate fish. Would that make him lacking in love, wisdom, understanding and compassion by doing such a thing?

Not everyone can eat the same as everyone else. That doesn't mean they are any less loving, evolved, understanding or compassionate.

No he didn't.

The Bible was written, compiled and corrupted by man and it says what the the Roman Catholic Church wanted it to say. (Which is how slavery came to be condoned in the Bible) They wanted their creed to appeal to the masses and the anti-meat, anti-blood sports, anti- strong drink, honouring of women true Christian philosophy didn't fit the bill.

There is dispute over wheter the Feeding of the 5000 happened that way (bread and grapes, instead of bread and fish) or that it even happened at all i.e. that it is a gematrical allegory.

The catching of 153 fish in a net was 'borrowed' directly from Pythagoras. 153 is a sacred gematric number in the Pythagorean tradition.

You are putting words in my mouth.

200 years ago slavery was legal.
100 years ago women weren't to be trusted with the vote.
50 years ago there was still racial segregation in America.

Humanity evolves, comes to see things differently. What was once acceptable, seen in a different light and understanding, becomes unacceptable. That is what I'm saying.

He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

It's pretty clear that he had eaten fish... Now if we are to say this verse is not true, and was added to sell an agenda at the time.. We now have to say that about everything. Even that Jesus existed, that he performed any miracles. That he died and that he rose from the dead. As any and all stories/testimonies were written by humans and could have been corrupted as what you said.

I would find it a little fishy to have been an exaggeration to sell their meat eating agenda. All they needed to say was that he ate a piece of bread. The point would have still been that he ate food. Whether it was fish or bread.